[D&D 4E] Barbaric psychedelic et cetera in action

[Ron Edwards]

Damn it! I forgot to include the link to the key to the whole thing! No wonder no one's commenting on that material. I edited the post to include it and will also put it here. Please check it out! (some play-details aren't on it, because I wrote them on my hard copy at the last minute - stuff like what happens at rests, and the details of managing the tougher terrain spots)

[Callan S.]

Hi Callan,

That's what I'm doing already. My observation is that for the level 2 material, the players had less agency to pick and choose what to do than they did for level 1. I've observed it, I've said "h'm," and I'm taking it with me as a consideration when I set up the next unit of prep.

Okie doke! Hey, I'm not seeing much visceral description of play, like in another 4e game you had some description of slamming a spear down into some NPC. Not for any particular reason, just hoping to read some of that in the moment stuff!

[Ron Edwards]

I'm glad you said that.

There have been some good character bits and actions, but not particularly dramatic or visceral in the sense you're talking about. Or if there are, it happens more as a player thing and less as a DM thing.

I think the reason why is that I haven't cultivated any really interesting NPCs. My favorites, the ghoul-women, all wound up dead. The one with the most potential, the Warforged Captain they fought to a draw and who is implied to be leading the upcoming assault on the valley, has been absent from play. Kzekk has merely been a plot device so far.

Time to put some thought into that too.

[Callan S.]

Are you aiming to achieve a certain level?

In my current Rifts game I set the original goal to achieve as level 5 (max level being 15). I told players that (though, even as they are avid boardgamers and optimisers, they kinda looked at me blank a bit) as a goal, as a way of giving the system a fair shake of the stick (I think it is) but without expecting them to play forever. They got to level five (after a death or two), so congrats to them! But as they still wanted to play, I set a new goal of level 9. That was a sort of organic assignment - whether they wanted to keep playing - I didn't plan for level 9 to come about. One's gotten there now, but the second is behind (deaths) so I've said congrats to the first but were kind of there to see if the second dude can make it (also the first wants to transform into a dragon now...)

I guess my point is I'd feel a bit lost otherwise (and also either too soft or too hard with my expectations on the players - either letting them make no commitment, or making them commit to gamer marriage/play forever!). And as a GM there's an over arching spine of going up the levels - it was there to see if they could get to 5, now can that last dude make it to ten (and dang, I get a third player about now...I'll have to figure something out there). I ran some D&D 2e at the same games club (kind of a second GM who was running another group (some players moving between groups. Definately too many for one table)) but it felt a bit treadmilly and I wanted to get somewhere (I was trying to plan out what it'd take to make them gain a level in my game), because otherwise it's putting effort in to get to...where? Sure maybe in a nar game you've got some sort of character development arc that kinda naturally climaxes at some point. But that doesn't apply in a more gamist inclined game.

I've probably said more about my game than I've asked about yours, but oh well - what are you aiming for or what are your players aiming for? Are levels a sense of pride (even if just a bit) in the group? The other GM's AD&D group has actually gotten a bunch of characters around 9th level - that seems mighty to me! And there's been a few deaths in that game (and a few failed system shock saves/perma deaths!)

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Callan,

You may have missed the posts above in which I talked about skipping to 10th level upon making 3rd (which they just did), with a corresponding play to skip to 20th after the next couple of levels. This is pretty carefully calibrated to the Hero/Paragon/Epic tiers of D&D4E. Check out what I posted about it and see what you think.

My plan regarding death was not to manage it at all but rather to play hard according to the instructions for challenges and see how it turned out. So far, some close calls but no death yet.

Best, Ron

[Callan S.]

I'm not sure - in a way I think every level is a tier (certainly I remember back in 3rd edtion when giant bats were kicking our ass - then we level once or twice and suddenly we could trounce them - that's raising in tier, to me). The named ones (heroic, paragon, epic), just to me anyway, are an extra recognition for having gotten there. To me skipping levels isn't experiencing higher levels - to me that's like driving to the end of a marathon to see what it's like to have gotten to the end of a marathon. That isn't experiencing it. That's just me, of course.

How goes the game? Curious as to see what's happening in Psychadelia?