Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Started by SlurpeeMoney, May 20, 2004, 11:34:31 PM
QuoteI have not read the whole of the discussion on gender based rules creation, but it seems to me that the point in basing attribute decisions on gender is being missed altogether.
QuoteWith enough time and some patience, we may even be able to discuss some of those sticky social situations.
QuoteReally, leaving out differences between the sexes can leave out a whole aspect of the game. Attributes are just the start.
QuoteIf a social bias exists, then this can be dealt with and removed if it's basis is merely superficial sexism.
QuoteI believe it was one of the many sexual documentaries I watch, many of which focus on the differences between men and women.
QuoteI believe the reference to stronger lower body strength was made vis a vis an article I read on the topic more moons ago than I care to count. In it, a young lady was championing much the same cause I am: gender bias based, not on the respective weakness of a given sex, but on the comparative strengths of both. As I recall, she had a very interesting bit regarding the favored weapons of women based upon their strengths, and I suddenly find myself wishing I had the article. I believe it was on RPG.net, and should I find it, I will link it here.
QuoteCombat is not a gender biased topic. Women are just as capable in combat as men, if not more so. Taking into consideration the greater range of attack a woman has available to her, as per her ability to lunge, it would be quite a simple matter to keep a man at an appreciable distance where weapons designed to make use of his greater upper body strength (which tend to be quite a bit smaller) are of little or no use.
QuoteI find this statement very difficult to reconcile with the way that the world actually works. You could pass off gender bias in society as superficial sexism, yes, but any attempt at a study of it would require digging into the social contexts in which that sexism is accepted and, more importantly, engendered into the mainstream consciousness. And sexism may not be so nearly as superfiscial as some would give it credit. Men and women are different animals. Were we any different than we are, I might go so far as to say we are Sexocialy Dimorphic. Sexism could be a designed cultural trait meant to maintain sexual drive through competition with our mates. Still, that's a discussion for another day. I digress.
Quote from: RavienAh, but there is a problem here. See, you are saying that this doesn't fit with "the way the world actually works...men and women are different animals", but on these two premises, alot of people will disagree (I don't, but alot do).
Quote from: YouSo much of the discussion in your linked posts seems to be dominated by women feeling distressed that men want to degrade them in game terms, and men fighting back with "well that's the way it really is."
Quote from: Andrew MorrisEmily makes a good point here -- most of the commenters in these topics are men. That seems kinda funny to me, though it does tend to confirm my personal experiences. Can we get some more opinions on this topic from some Forge women?
Quote from: Ron EdwardsThe issue is to recognize that game design and play might focus on their relative strengths, as perceived and believed by the author or role-players, and to use those features as central mechanics or other aspects of the role-playing experience.
Quote from: RavienEver heard of essentialism and constructivism? These are the core arguments for and against (repectively) the destruction of all gender biases in society. On one hand, people claim differences are real and are biological, which then carries over into social, and on the other hand people claim differences are social only, and thus they exist for no good reason. You may not think it's a controversy, but believe me, it is.
QuoteI'm curious about the title you've given to this thread. Are you implying that as long as the attribute differences do not make it sucky to play a female character (ie gender bias), that gender based diffrences can enhance play?
Quote... the suggestion that gender be reflected in attribute modifiers implies an essentialist vision. The constructionist alternative would be to have gender-differentiated classes or packages (i.e. have separate classes for Nobleman and Noblewoman, for example, to reflect that they are raised differently). Now, it is possible to mix both of these, of course...
QuoteKris, are you familiar with any of these?
QuoteIn a very detailed game that tried to model reality as thoroughly as possible, I think gender differences make sense. In pretty much any other type of game, I don't think they add anything, unless gender differences are the focus of the game.
Quote from: KingstonCGiven that a truly androgynous society is a utopian dream, men and women will always play different roles in society. Premises revolving around how we create an equitable society given this fact are very powerful.