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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 160 - most online ever: 429 (November 03, 2007, 04:35:43 AM)
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Author Topic: Furniture?  (Read 7900 times)
btrc
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« on: February 16, 2005, 05:05:17 AM »

I'm willing to step up to the plate and find us some -good- permanent booth furniture, which I think can be had for about the same one-time price as we're currently paying -per year- to the extortionists at the booth rental end.

The kicker is that -I- have no means to transport or store said furniture. Do any of the likely booth primaries have garage space and plan to show up at GenCon in a van or truck?

I'm going to be looking at furniture that can be broken down for storage and transport, so no excessively large amount of space will be required to move or house it.

Want to save yourself a few hundred bucks of booth expense each and every year? Offer the Forge booth some storage space and room in your van? Maybe Ron can sweeten the deal in terms of future booth participation costs. Ron?

Greg Porter
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #1 on: February 16, 2005, 09:29:27 AM »

Hiya,

I think it's tricky to help share costs on this stuff, but really, it comes down to two ways.

1. The banner method. A couple of people worked very hard and had a very professional, very cool banner made. They invoiced the rest of us (well, it was more troublesome than that and I accidentally made one person mad, but in effect, it worked out that way) and we all chipped in our parts. Now the banner is in the "bring to GenCon" pile in my Adept office, and it's on me to respect the group payment and bring it every time.

2. The cash register method. One person simply bought the damn thing and brings it. It's his, and no one else helped pay for it. He brings it out of the goodness of his heart, and that's that.

Now, which of these is going to apply to furniture, I don't know. Greg, since you're the point man, it's totally up to you which works better for you, and the rest of us will abide by that.

And yeah, someone better step up to help with transport, if they think it should happen. This is where people actually show that they can do it rather than just talk about what "someone" should do.

Best,
Ron
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btrc
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« Reply #2 on: February 16, 2005, 11:13:30 AM »

On furniture:
The primary sponsors are going to be coughing up for it one way or the other, either as rental every year, or as a one time purchase of about the same amount.

I'm willing to shop around, find and pay for the stuff out of my pocket, -if- the other primaries are willing to pay me back for their proportionate share (preferably before GenCon) -and- someone can store and move the stuff (or buy me a new truck to cart it around with).

There aren't going to be any surprises here. Once I find something that seems suitable, I'll post links for everyone to check it out and see what the final total (and therefore financial committment) would be. Ron has already said that simply renting tables and chairs is going to run $200 or more per primary. It seems if I can closely match that total for perpetual ownership of quality booth furniture, then we have a good deal.

However, I'm not going to cough up a grand or more for furniture I can't store, can't move and won't get reimbursed for.

So, is anyone willing to step up and be the warehouse and transport? It doesn't have to be perpetual, but it will mean a commitment until at least the following GenCon (so you could hand it off to someone else), or being close enough to another willing Forgite to deliver it to them should your circumstances not allow you to bring it.

And, some thoughts on how many tables, how many chairs, and any other preferences? For instance, I think pedestal tables are the way to go, but what size tabletop do we want? 30"? 36" Round? Square? Chairs with backs? Stools? etc.

Greg Porter
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TonyLB
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« Reply #3 on: February 16, 2005, 11:25:00 AM »

Though I cannot warehouse (living in Virginia), I thought I should add that the idea that the primary sponsors will forever be paying equal shares of rental is missing out on one element:  Some of us little fry (me, me!) have definite aspirations toward becoming primary sponsors in years to come.  

If you end up investing big bucks now, you should also think through how folks are going to buy into a share of that investment later.
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btrc
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« Reply #4 on: February 16, 2005, 12:04:12 PM »

Quote
If you end up investing big bucks now, you should also think through how folks are going to buy into a share of that investment later.


My thought was that these people would in turn help get some other permanent improvement for the booth somewhere down the line. I've not been a primary sponsor in the past, though I might be this year. I see my contribution in that case as being payback for having use of facilities that previous primary sponsors coughed up the dough for.

Greg
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btrc
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« Reply #5 on: February 18, 2005, 03:32:01 AM »

Someone? Anyone? Save yourself $200+ every year on booth fees? No one here has a truck/van and a garage/storage space? Heck, if they had the storage space, that person could rent a van and get reimbused for it and we'd still be saving buttloads of money.

Greg Porter
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LordSmerf
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« Reply #6 on: February 18, 2005, 05:37:23 AM »

I remember that last time this came up that someone tossed out the idea of renting storage space in the Indy area.  How feasible/expensive would that be?  It would make transport way easier, and reduce the risk of Bad Things happening to the furniture.  On the other hand, it would make things at least a bit more expensive.

Thomas
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btrc
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« Reply #7 on: February 18, 2005, 06:35:14 AM »

Doesn't make transport that much easier. We'll still need a vehicle on-site that can move the stuff.

Greg
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Christopher Weeks
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« Reply #8 on: February 18, 2005, 07:04:25 AM »

The info that I found last year, I posted here .

Transportation really is much, much easier if it's nearly on site.  Lots of us have vans and trucks and SUVs that won't have room for all that furniture and the stuff we're bringing to the con but would be able to unload and then go get the furniture.  It also might be that the storage place rents a van for $20/day (the last storage unit I had, had such a deal).  And if we/you are lucky, you can have the furniture delivered to the storage closet if there's someone local (even if not a primary) that you can draft for a little work.

If the Forge website as we know it is closing in 2-3 years, what about the Forge GenCon booth experience?  I think that buying the furniture is clearly a big cost savings over time (maybe as little as two years), but do you all have the time?
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btrc
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« Reply #9 on: February 18, 2005, 07:19:33 AM »

Quote
Lots of us have vans and trucks and SUVs that won't have room for all that furniture and the stuff we're bringing to the con


Can you elaborate on that? I think I probably brought more game stock than anyone else, and everything I needed for two people for the weekend and the game stock fit in the trunk of a car with room to spare.

If people are bringing vans, trucks & SUV's, what exactly are they filling them with? Did anyone actually sell a vanload of games last year?

What about a roll call here? Who are you, what level of booth participation are you interested in, what type of vehicle will you be bringing, and how stuffed will it be?

Greg Porter (possible primary):
4-door sedan, game stock and personal supplies in the trunk.

Greg Porter
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Matt Wilson
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« Reply #10 on: February 18, 2005, 08:03:59 AM »

I would like some actual numbers on what's being saved. Seriously.

How much furniture do we actually get with the booth, and how much additional stuff did we end up renting and how much did that cost?

I know from experience that furniture is a ripoff from the con suppliers, but let's lay it out so everyone knows just how much savings we're talking.
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #11 on: February 18, 2005, 08:21:59 AM »

Hello,

Official numbers, based on past years (I'm too lazy to dig out this year's envelopes):

We get two long tables with the booth. We cannot trade them in for shorter tables; we have to give them back for nothing and then pay for shorter tables. We've tried to get around this with placing the tables carefully, but it doesn't work - we really need a short table, and no (or maybe one max) long one.

We need at least five, preferably six round tables.

Chairs are the killer - three chairs per table, and another couple, at least for the cash person of the moment. We get two with the booth. The chairs are surprisingly expensive.

Total cost, at the non-late fee, is about $850, and upwards of $1000 for the late cost.

Best,
Ron
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Keith Senkowski
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« Reply #12 on: February 18, 2005, 08:36:18 AM »

Ron,

Holy crap!  That pricing is ridiculous.  I could probably store and bring down some or all of the folding chairs depending on how many that would be.  I don't have a van/truck but I do have a nice big ass Buick.  So what I am saying is I am volunteering my services to store folding chairs.

Keith
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LordSmerf
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« Reply #13 on: February 18, 2005, 09:17:50 AM »

Ron,

To clarify:

6 x round tables (are we looking at 36" or 48" diameter, and are we looking at 23" standard or 46" cafe in terms of height?)
2 x "short tables" (are we talking about 48"x30", 48"x20" or some other size?)
20 x folding chairs (at a minimum; we have problems utilizing standard chairs with cafe sized tables)

We can probably swing the chairs for around $25 a pop, so that's $500.

All of the tables can be had for somewhere between $70-$100 each.  On the high end that's $800.

So, we're looking at an upper limit of around $1300.  Assuming that we have less than $300 in storage/transport costs we make money back the second year.

It's actually likely that we'll get the tables at the low end of that, which puts us at closer to $1100 for all of it.

Thomas
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btrc
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« Reply #14 on: February 18, 2005, 09:23:23 AM »

Two chairs behind the main cash table is probably fine. But how many tables do we want for the rest of the booth? That determines how many chairs or bar stools we need.

I can manage to store and transport a few bar stools, like 4 in the back seat of the car and store them in trash bags out in the unheated and slightly leaky storage shed. It's the 36" to 42" pedestal tables I'm looking at that are the problem. BTW, these break down into base, pedestal and tabletop, so they aren't hogging huge amounts of space for storage. They will take more volume than a folding table, but a lot less length for cargo bed purposes.

Greg Porter
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