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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 153 - most online ever: 429 (November 03, 2007, 04:35:43 AM)
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Author Topic: [Sorcerer] Humans as Demons and The Matador  (Read 2108 times)
The_Tim
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Posts: 31

Armchair Game Theorist


« on: May 10, 2006, 04:34:54 PM »

So, this thread got me thinking again about something burning the back of my mind.  That was how to reconcile demons that are humans with the idea that in Sorcerer demons aren't real, but the characters have them anyway.  Then it hit me.  [http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0365485/]The Matador[/url].

In the movie you have these two different worlds, with different stories.  In one there is Greg Kinnear's character, a down on his luck businessman with a wife and a dead kid and the plot material for a drama that if done badly might end up on Lifetime.  In the other there is Pierce Brosnan's character, a killer for hire doing all of the murder and spy movie crap that just can't be real.  And it isn't.  When it comes up it intrudes on the first world.  It isn't right.

Once I started thinking this way it the whole movie appeared to me as a template for a Sorcerer game.  A guy meets a demon, who interacts the only way he knows how: show off his Power and offer an act of sorcery (a Pact).  The attempt of the demon to gain Humanity, to reject sorcery, and escape is interesting.  The absolute failure of the demon to interact as an actual human, due to a lack of Humanity.  A group of people that try to control demons.  All there.
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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #1 on: May 31, 2006, 04:41:06 AM »

Hi there,

My apologies for not getting to this sooner.

First reply is, "right." In the sense that I think the film Live Flesh is one of the great Sorcerer stories.

Second reply, however, is, "but all this is putting the cart before the horse." Demon relationships, rituals, and other stuff like that in Sorcerer (and as I see it, in myth and literature) are all metaphors for messed-up human interactions in the first place.

Best, Ron
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The_Tim
Member

Posts: 31

Armchair Game Theorist


« Reply #2 on: June 01, 2006, 03:02:13 AM »

I wasn't clear enough.  I think the thing that struck me about the movie in terms of Sorcerer was that the screwed-upness of the relationship, the disconnect from normal reality, and the choices about getting involved and where to go.  It seemed to be easily playable out with the Sorcerer mechanics, and so I think forms a good clear viewing resource for stripping away the metaphor/supernatural aspects and using the Sorcerer mechanics for people interacting with people in totally messed up ways.  All of the dynamics and stuff are in play issues, but stories with the same color and structure that are already done are useful guides.
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