*
*
Home
Help
Login
Register
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
July 21, 2018, 05:33:21 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Search:     Advanced search
275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 153 - most online ever: 429 (November 03, 2007, 04:35:43 AM)
Pages: [1]
Print
Author Topic: The merits of fulfillment houses  (Read 4828 times)
andrew_kenrick
Member

Posts: 194


WWW
« on: July 11, 2006, 07:53:34 AM »

I'm toying with the idea of signing up to Indie Press Revolution, but am wondering if it's worth it? I mean, we already do business with Key20, so would we gain anything by signing up with IPR too? Would I be duplicating my efforts or competing with myself, or do the two fulfill different roles?
Logged

Andrew Kenrick
www.steampowerpublishing.com
Dead of Night - a pocket sized game of b-movie and slasher horror
Ron Edwards
Global Moderator
Member
*
Posts: 16490


WWW
« Reply #1 on: July 11, 2006, 08:21:35 AM »

To my knowledge, I am the only person who currently utilizes both Key 20 and Indie Press Revolution. That is due to a historical accident of timing ... at the time, summer 2004, I needed to switch to a real service as opposed to the boondoggle that Tundra Sales Organization had become, IPR was not offering retail-based distribution, and Key 20 was, but IPR had the better deal in Adept Press terms than Key 20.

So I talked with the relevant individuals and set up my books to go through Key 20 for the stores, and through IPR for the direct sales. Since then, history has rolled along, and both companies have adjusted their services as they learned more about the markets (and realized they were the only honest dudes in town!), and both companies now offer direct-sales service and retail-store service.

At this point, then, since both are honest and fair, and since both offer both services, the only relevant distinctions between them for a given publisher will be found in the contractual details. That will be entirely an individual judgment call, as they do differ slightly, and for perfectly reasonable reasons in both cases. You just have to choose which package suits you better.

Since you've already signed up with Key 20, which is fine and good, then I don't see any benefit to working with IPR as well. The circumstances of my own historical accidental timing are long gone. Also, if I'm not mistaken, both companies require that their on-line service be the only one used by a publisher who works with them. In which case, signing up for both would not be acceptable to either in the first place, rendering your decision about it unnecessary.

However, I can't speak for the two companies. If you have really practical, legal, policy questions about how they operate, then your best bet is to get in touch and ask. Both Jason (Key 20) and Brennan (IPR) can be trusted to give you fair answers.

Best, Ron
Logged
Josh Roby
Member

Posts: 1055

Category Three Forgite


WWW
« Reply #2 on: July 11, 2006, 08:59:51 AM »

Nathan Paoletta (hamsterprophet) is also with both Key20 and IPR, and has signed up with them only recently, so there must be some way to navigate both of them at the same time.  Nathan, why did you sign up with both of them?
Logged

timfire
Member

Posts: 756


WWW
« Reply #3 on: July 11, 2006, 09:12:05 AM »

I have never worked with Key20, only IPR, and I have no hard numbers to back up my claims---however, it seems to me that Key20 has a slightly bigger retailer base, while IPR does slightly better with direct sales. This perception, I must admit, may based on the forementioned historical conditions Ron mentioned, and may no longer be accurate.

Ron & Nathan, does that match your (current) experiences, or is my perception off?
Logged

--Timothy Walters Kleinert
Justin D. Jacobson
Member

Posts: 186


WWW
« Reply #4 on: July 11, 2006, 09:29:07 AM »

I have never worked with Key20, only IPR, and I have no hard numbers to back up my claims---however, it seems to me that Key20 has a slightly bigger retailer base, while IPR does slightly better with direct sales. This perception, I must admit, may based on the forementioned historical conditions Ron mentioned, and may no longer be accurate.

Ron & Nathan, does that match your (current) experiences, or is my perception off?
Your perceptions match mine is well, which is why (as of this month) I too am a member of both. I was an "inaugural" member of IPR and have nothing but great things to say about them. However, it does some like Key20 gets better retailer penetration, which is why I signed on with them too.
Logged

Facing off against Captain Ahab, Dr. Fu Manchu, and Prof. Moriarty? Sure!

Passages - Victorian era, literary-based high adventure!
Thor Olavsrud
Member

Posts: 349


WWW
« Reply #5 on: July 11, 2006, 10:03:27 AM »

Burning Wheel also utilizes both Key 20 and IPR. You'll have to ask Luke for specifics. However, in general, Key 20 allows us to move Burning Wheel through traditional distribution channels, and also tends to have greater retailer access.

IPR, on the other hand, has established a solid brand presence among consumers of indie games, which makes it a good channel for direct sales.
Logged

Nathan P.
Member

Posts: 536


WWW
« Reply #6 on: July 11, 2006, 11:06:23 AM »

Quick answer: Based on my sale data, Key20 gets my games into distribution. IPR puts my game into the hands of customers. I've sold more copies through Key20, but I've made more profit through IPR.

At the end of this year, I'm going to take stock and see if this setup is fulfilling my goals or not.
Logged

Nathan P.
--
Find Annalise
---
My Games | ndp design
Also | carry. a game about war.
I think Design Matters
Justin D. Jacobson
Member

Posts: 186


WWW
« Reply #7 on: July 11, 2006, 02:44:52 PM »

Quick answer: Based on my sale data, Key20 gets my games into distribution. IPR puts my game into the hands of customers. I've sold more copies through Key20, but I've made more profit through IPR.

At the end of this year, I'm going to take stock and see if this setup is fulfilling my goals or not.
That's the result I'm hopeing for. Key20's sales will naturally be less profitable on a per unit basis because they're selling to more retailers at retailer terms, which brings down the average. However, I'm comfortable in assuming that there is no significant cannibalization between the two. As long as I'm making a profit on the retailer sales, I want to make as many of them as possible. Without divulging any specifics (in respect for IPR and Key20), I will say that the percentage they take from each sale is comparable.
Logged

Facing off against Captain Ahab, Dr. Fu Manchu, and Prof. Moriarty? Sure!

Passages - Victorian era, literary-based high adventure!
andrew_kenrick
Member

Posts: 194


WWW
« Reply #8 on: July 12, 2006, 01:28:00 PM »

And indeed that was the answer I was hoping for too. I'm eager to get Dead of Night into the hands of as many gamers as possible, as well as to finally break even; not to mention future indie releases.

Thanks guys - I think I'll give careful consideration to signing up with IPR! Although I notice it seems to be that most people have gone from IPR to Key20, rather than from Key20 to IPR ... Is this purely coincedental?
Logged

Andrew Kenrick
www.steampowerpublishing.com
Dead of Night - a pocket sized game of b-movie and slasher horror
Thor Olavsrud
Member

Posts: 349


WWW
« Reply #9 on: July 12, 2006, 02:05:44 PM »

Although I notice it seems to be that most people have gone from IPR to Key20, rather than from Key20 to IPR ... Is this purely coincedental?

I'm not sure that's the case. Burning Wheel started with Key 20. We added IPR later.
Logged

Nathan P.
Member

Posts: 536


WWW
« Reply #10 on: July 12, 2006, 03:29:53 PM »

I started talking to them each at about the same time, but the process went quicker with Key20 than with IPR (for reasons that I don't know), so I was with Key20 first, technically.
Logged

Nathan P.
--
Find Annalise
---
My Games | ndp design
Also | carry. a game about war.
I think Design Matters
timfire
Member

Posts: 756


WWW
« Reply #11 on: July 12, 2006, 03:55:02 PM »

I wanted to make a quick comment for the sake of anyone searching this topic---both Key20 and IPR are technically fulfillment houses, but they do alot more than a normal fulfillment house. Besides just warehousing and mailing, both Key20 and IPR act as quasi-distributors and internet storefronts. So discussing the merits of Key20 and IPR is a little different than discssing the general topic of fulfillment houses.
Logged

--Timothy Walters Kleinert
Pages: [1]
Print
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
Oxygen design by Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!