Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Started by Ron Edwards, August 20, 2006, 04:24:28 PM
Quote from: Clyde L. Rhoer on August 24, 2006, 09:13:14 AMI wonder if creating people whole-cloth is a uniquely roleplaying thing? Do many authors work this way or do their characters grow more naturally?
Quote from: Malcolm on August 24, 2006, 10:38:29 AMQuote from: Clyde L. Rhoer on August 24, 2006, 09:13:14 AMI wonder if creating people whole-cloth is a uniquely roleplaying thing? Do many authors work this way or do their characters grow more naturally?I think this is a fundamentally excellent question, Clyde. From my own experience creating characters for games and writing (a bit of) fiction, it certainly seems to me that games (of certain kinds) promote the creation of "whole cloth" characters here and now, rather than the "organic" devlopment I've seen in fiction writing. I'm not sure if it is uniquely a roleplaying thing, but it is certainly a prominent aspect of the experience.Perhaps, and this is merely musing on my part, the way that 'traditional' play has grown from the early days has moulded the consciousness of many participants into the view that adding significant character detail that is not actually created by an in-game situation, is wrong and therefore one must formulate as much detail prior to play starting as possible.
Quote from: James_Nostack on August 21, 2006, 10:34:59 AMQuote from: pfischer on August 21, 2006, 05:53:54 AMSo, even gamers (people who have played boardgames but not RPGs) display this "hatred" of acting responsibility... ?It's possible that even "rusty" roleplayers have the same reaction. (Or at least a similar one.) I'd played D&D in middle school, but hadn't done any face-to-face roleplaying in about 15 years--until very recently. There is something very odd and a little ridiculous about speaking in character, and while doing so I could only make eye contact with enormous effort. Narrating in "third person" was much easier. I've gotten better, mostly by feeling less self-conscious.
Quote from: pfischer on August 21, 2006, 05:53:54 AMSo, even gamers (people who have played boardgames but not RPGs) display this "hatred" of acting responsibility... ?
Quote from: Callan S. on August 24, 2006, 05:23:08 AMAgain I can relate to them. I hate character creation. I find it empty ...SNIP...In terms of my own preference, I found it a chore, though applying points I'd earned in play was very fun.
Quote from: Ricky Donato on August 24, 2006, 11:30:17 AM[If Joe sits down to play Monopoly, for example, and he's never played Monopoly, the first decision he makes is to choose which piece to play. From the context, Joe sees that his decision cannot screw him later, because the decision is one of Color purely. So he can make this decision without worrying. Then Joe rolls and lands on, say, Baltimore Avenue, and he has to decide to buy it for $60 or not. Suppose Joe looks at his starting money of $1500 and says, "Sure," because he feels the amount of money to spend is inconsequential to the amount he has.Note that from the POV of whether Joe enjoys the game, it doesn't actually matter what Joe decides or what criteria he uses to decide. All that actually matters to ensure that Joe enjoys himself is that Joe feels that it is safe to make that decision in that context.Now let's suppose Joe plays D&D3E, which he has never played before. Joe is presented with a massive list of choices: what race? what class? where to allocate skill points? The biggest obstacle to Joe's enjoyment of this is that Joe has no criteria to guide him. If Tommy the experienced gamer tells Joe, "Just play what you want", Joe is left with the worrying feeling of "How do I know what I want?"Does all that make sense?
Quote from: Ron Edwards on August 24, 2006, 01:44:08 PMHi Neill,I'm putting aside my rapidly-expanding post on Siuation-first to answer part of your post .... I think you have it backwards, suggesting that the players in question are "doing it wrong" and we have to fix them in some way. I'm saying the reverse - they are right and we are wrong. They are right in seeking (a) step-by-step, non-qualified, organized play instructions; and (b) a discernible reward system.I don't think I did a good job of doing that, for Brian and Eliza, in that I said "it's about boxing!" and went on from there. But I don't think I would have served them or us well by launching into a discourse of the Big Model, either. I would have served them well by using it, providing (a) and (b) in two-sentence form apiece.Best, Ron
Quote from: ContendersEach player takes on the role of a boxer, a would be CONTENDER. However, time is running out for these pugilists, it's now or never. Can they build the confidence and hope needed to become a true champion? Or are they destined to be dragged down into a sea of pain and despair?