Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Started by Simon C, January 15, 2007, 12:38:03 AM
QuoteThe best Premise-heavy role-playing mechanics concern choices and consequences, not judgments. However, they also set up opportunities for judgment by the real people, via the actions of characters or other in-game announcements like scene-framing.
QuoteWhat's the difference between "Bad" humanity in V:tM, and "good" humanity in Sorceror? I see you've explained that a little in your previous post, but I'm not really getting it yet, perhaps becasue I'm not very familiar with Sorceror. I understand that in Sorceror you define for yourself what Humanity means, rather than having it dictated to you. What stops this from being a more open ended varaition on "Story Before"? What game mechanics I don't know about prevent this from being the case?
QuoteTherefore Humanity in Sorcerer does not act as a psychological gauge of the character's internal state in any way at all. It is instead a thoroughly author-level judgment mechanism, playing almost the same role as a musical score during play, if you could imagine a musical score that was never merely incidental or trivial (i.e. only for shock).
Quote from: Simon C on January 15, 2007, 12:38:03 AMCompare this with a recent, drifted, game of Vampire, where we completely disregarded the humanity system. I was running a game for my younger cousins. They, typical for kids exploring a new game, took liberties with the lives of human NPCs. One character climbed in a dorm room widow, but awoke the sleeping inhabitant. So he snapped the human's neck. He heard sounds coming from the doorway, and the roommate waking up, so he stowed the body under the bed, and got into it himself, moving a little under the covers to give the impression of restless sleep. When the roomate checked on the murdered college student, all appeared fine.This was a pretty shocking event for all of us. The other kids were all sort of staring at the guy, and he began to look a bit uneasy. I continued as if nothing had happened, and I could see it dawning on them "we're Vampires. We can do that, and get away with it. Nothing will stop us, unless we choose to stop ourselves." This was a more poignant moment of "personal horror" than I've experienced in any other game of Vampire.
QuoteThe game doesn't tell you what to think, it gives you a mechanic for saying what you think in the game. Does that sound right?
QuoteIf a game is to properly address an issue like "Loss of Humanity" or the like, does it make more sense to reward, rather than punish loss of humanity in the game. For example, V:tM strongly punishes loss of humanity. Would it make more sense for it to reward it?
QuoteBut that approach in isolation is ass. It's merely bookkeeping and running in a hamster wheel ... "why get better at rolls? because you get more points? why get points? you get better at rolls!" Or a similar one ... "if you bring in your character's love-interest, you get a point!" for a game in which there's no reason to play except to interact with and have conflict with love-interests.
QuoteAbout the love-conflict example, I think you may be missing the point. I am saying that if the game is about love-conflicts, and if you do have such a "bring in the interest, get a point" mechanism, that there may be a serious flaw. I realize that sounds counter-intuitive. But consider: if you have a game in which fighting with monsters, using medieval weapons, is the point, and you put in a rule that "every time you say you draw your weapon, get a point!" ... you're fuckin' up your game design.
QuoteThis is going to be a problem for those who've learned, superficially, that Forge-ish games are based on operant conditioning. They're not. You can't get someone to accept treats for performing aspects of X, when they don't bloody fucking want to do X. However, if they do, then treats that help generate X are a lot of fun.
Quote(Before you wrinkle your nose and wonder why that's such a big deal, please contrast the presence of this decision in Sorcerer to its utter, total, complete, and unacknowledged absence in every role-playing game that preceded it, and most that follow it.)
QuoteHow the score Humanity fits into that cycle is the subject of an entire supplement, which I maintain cannot be fully processed unless you play the game, then play again after reading that supplement and applying its points.