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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 88 - most online ever: 565 (October 17, 2020, 02:08:06 PM)
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Author Topic: Telltale and Cloak  (Read 3904 times)
Plotin
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« on: November 06, 2007, 11:39:16 AM »

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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #1 on: November 06, 2007, 04:29:27 PM »

Hi Michael,

Well, let's take it step by step. First, we shall assume that there exists an inherent conflict of interest which depends on noticing the demon. This is generally the case in situations like the one you're describing, so we don't need to stress about this part. I mention it only because if, somehow, no conflict of interest applied to this situation in a particular instance of play, then there would be no roll.

Second, let's consider what would happen if the demon was not Inconspicuous, but a Passer (and either not having, or having but not using, Cloak). In other words, the character runs around with a hot-looking scary woman accompanying him.

This is a simpler case, so if you understand this one, then understanding the Inconspicuous one is easy. Here's how it works: the sorcerer player would roll dice equal to Lore and the demon player (GM) would roll one die. That's it: one die. That's what a demon gets to keep its demon-ness hidden from a sorcerer, no matter what its Power is. The only exception is if the demon has the Cover ability, in which case it rolls its Power instead.

In that case, if the demon lost, then the second sorcerer says, "Hey, that babe is a demon!!"

Third, let's move onto the situation you describe, in which the demon is Inconspicuous rather than a Passer. There are two rolls, but not quite as you describe.

The first roll is highly situational, predicated on the idea that the demon is "hiding in plain sight" using Cloak, and the sorcerer is engaged in any other action, ranging from saying hello from attacking to meditating upon the cosmos, or whatever. Each side uses the relevant score to the situation. For instance, both might use Will, if the situation is purely social. The demon gets to add its Power in dice to its roll. The whole point here is whether the second sorcerer realizes that anyone is there at all. If he doesn't, then that's that, the issue is solved.

The second roll is just like the one with the Passer. Let's say the demon fails the first roll, Power dice and all. So, it is now established that the first sorcerer has a hot scary woman accompanying him. The issue now is whether the second sorcerer realizes that the hot scary woman is a demon, and the roll is totally as normal: Lore vs. a single die (or Cover dice).

Let me know if that helps!

Best, Ron
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Plotin
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« Reply #2 on: November 06, 2007, 10:38:38 PM »

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Ron Edwards
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« Reply #3 on: November 07, 2007, 11:23:39 AM »

Hi Michael,

Glad I could help. And yes, if the demon has Cover, then its roll vs. being detected-as-a-demon uses the Cover dice (Power), not a single die.

Your new inquiry can be dealt with as easily as the first, and again, by understanding the rules in terms of layers. I suspected we might come to this issue, which is why I began my post above with a discussion of the primary rule in Sorcerer: the dice are used only to resolve conflicts.

1. In the case of an Inconspicuous demon whose appearance, once revealed, cannot possibly be mistaken for a human or anything else normal, no "is it a demon?" roll is called for in the first place. Why not? Because in defining the demon in this way, the player is effectively saying, Identifying this thing as a demon will never be a conflict. The only concern is whether anyone notices it's present before it's ready to do something proactive (which by definition drops the Cloak). Noticing it is therefore a conflict, and probably pretty much always an inherent conflict when the demon is in a scene, given that other individuals are being disadvantaged by not knowing its's there. But identifying it as a demon, or at least as something quite awful and not normal, is a given - hence that's not a conflict and requires no roll.

2. In the case of a Passer without Cloak, the definition of the type creates the opposite situation. The demon is noticeable in the same sense that any character is noticeable when present, and by definition, its appearance is normal. However, since it is in fact, you know, a demon, its duplicitous presence creates a standing conflict that's the opposite of the demon above: not whether its presence is noticed, but whether its unnatural-ness is noticed. Just as with #1, the non-conflict is not rolled - no one has to roll to see whether they notice the scary babe standing there.

3. In the case of a Passer with Cloak, the definition of the type and the choice of ability create a nearly opposite situation: here we have a thing which, by definition, is a walking conflict of "don't notice me," and also, "don't realize what I am." That's why two rolls are involved, because two, separate conflicts are occurring between the demon and the other character, simply because the demon is there. As Jesse points out in one of the threads linked above, the two rolls may be considered related, and so the victories of the first, if successful, may be rolled into the dice of the second.

Let me know if this makes sense!

Best, Ron
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Plotin
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« Reply #4 on: November 07, 2007, 12:31:13 PM »

Makes perfect sense, Ron, thank you. All of your answers are very much in line with what I suspected anyway, down to the appearance of an Inconspicuous demon being a kind of special effect and to giving the victories of the noticing roll as bonus dice for the realization roll as per point 3 of your clarification.

Seems as if I might just start to finally get to grips with the game mechanics.
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My real name is Michael.
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