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275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 72 - most online ever: 565 (October 17, 2020, 02:08:06 PM)
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Author Topic: Sorcery: Something from Nothing  (Read 5318 times)
ShaneNINE
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« on: August 19, 2002, 10:52:03 AM »

The rules say you can't create something from nothing or turn something to nothing, but isn't that what the example shrink/enlarge spells do? Seems a catch 22 to me. You can't enlarge a block of wood cause you can't make more wood from nothing. And you can't really be enlarging the size of the constituent atoms/molecules cause they cease to be the same thing when you change their size, right? A hydrogen atom that is enlarged by a factor of ten ceases to be a hydrogen atom. That's my take on it.

And nevermind about shrinking or enlarging living things by a factor of ten. That's just an elaborate route to a quick death IMO.
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::: Shane
Mike Holmes
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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« Reply #1 on: August 19, 2002, 12:19:18 PM »

Here we go again...
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ShaneNINE
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« Reply #2 on: August 19, 2002, 02:28:23 PM »

Ok, is this a dig cause it's already been covered and I didn't search for it, or is it a dig cause you think it's a dumb thing to point out? If it's already been discussed can you point me to the thread? Thanks.
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::: Shane
Valamir
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« Reply #3 on: August 19, 2002, 03:31:16 PM »

Heh, no this specific topic hasn't been covered yet...but there is a fairly long and sometimes heated thread about thinking of RoS magic in terms of real world physics.  In that thread it was trying to ponder the ramifications of relativistic speeds...in yours its thinking of matter in terms of atoms.

Bottom line of that thread...don't try to apply modern concepts of physics to a magic system based in a fantasy world.  Its a round hole / square peg thing.

I imagine that was what Mike was fearing getting started again.

(PS:  if you do attempt to apply modern concepts of physics, a starting character can pretty much destroy the world in a single spell...so don't do it.)
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Todd Bogenrief
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« Reply #4 on: August 20, 2002, 06:11:20 AM »

From reading the "Physics" thread and the idea's here I think that we are all just overthinking it.  In game terms it can just be something that "just works" with no scientific method behind it.

Your 10x hydrogen atom (which would still be pretty darn small) may appear to look like a giant hydrogen atom but could act as if it were still normal. Magic could just override the local effects of physics and science on the person/thing that is increased by 10x size.  In effect just becoming a 10x model of themselves with no extra materials created in this transformation.  Things like mass and weight effect them as if they were still normal size.  

I hope it transforms everything they are carrying as well though otherwise that suit of platemail could get uncomfortable real fast. :)

-Todd
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-Todd "Bogie" Bogenrief
Unsane
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« Reply #5 on: August 20, 2002, 09:32:35 AM »

Quote from: ShaneNINE

And nevermind about shrinking or enlarging living things by a factor of ten. That's just an elaborate route to a quick death IMO.


Unless the living thing in question was underwater (I think).
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Lance D. Allen
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« Reply #6 on: August 20, 2002, 11:05:48 AM »

Quote
I hope it transforms everything they are carrying as well though otherwise that suit of platemail could get uncomfortable real fast. :)


Only if that's what you're intending the spell to do.. However, the Shrink Enlarge spell is one of the more effective ones in combat because:

1. My opponent grows, but his cuirbolli/chain/plate does not. Dead.

2. My opponent's armor shrinks, but his body does not. Dead.

3. My opponent shrinks, but his armor does not. I wait for him to poke his head out of one of the arms, then step on him. Dead.

4. My opponent's armor grows, but he does not. When the weight of the armor overmatches any balancing issues which keep it upright, it will collapse and... Dead.

And yes, there are actually several threads devoted to the overthinking of magic in terms of Physics. Remember that magic defies the laws of Physics, because the laws of magic are bigger than the laws of Physics. It's like trying to define a number with decimal places with an Integer value.. It doesn't work because the defining factor doesn't fit.
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~Lance Allen
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Bob Richter
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« Reply #7 on: August 20, 2002, 12:27:08 PM »

Quote from: Wolfen
Quote

And yes, there are actually several threads devoted to the overthinking of magic in terms of Physics. Remember that magic defies the laws of Physics, because the laws of magic are bigger than the laws of Physics. It's like trying to define a number with decimal places with an Integer value.. It doesn't work because the defining factor doesn't fit.


Magic doesn't defy the laws of physics, it just allows for a new mechanism to work within them. All you have is a novel set of heat engines, not something larger than the laws of physics.

And ask any mathematician: all decimals can be defined in terms of integers.
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Todd Bogenrief
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« Reply #8 on: August 20, 2002, 12:27:43 PM »

Quote from: Wolfen
Quote
I hope it transforms everything they are carrying as well though otherwise that suit of platemail could get uncomfortable real fast. :)


Only if that's what you're intending the spell to do.. However, the Shrink Enlarge spell is one of the more effective ones in combat because:

1. My opponent grows, but his cuirbolli/chain/plate does not. Dead.

2. My opponent's armor shrinks, but his body does not. Dead.

3. My opponent shrinks, but his armor does not. I wait for him to poke his head out of one of the arms, then step on him. Dead.

4. My opponent's armor grows, but he does not. When the weight of the armor overmatches any balancing issues which keep it upright, it will collapse and... Dead.



I like it! [Insert evil GM grin here]
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-Todd "Bogie" Bogenrief
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