*
*
Home
Help
Login
Register
Welcome, Guest. Please login or register.
August 10, 2022, 09:21:23 AM

Login with username, password and session length
Forum changes: Editing of posts has been turned off until further notice.
Search:     Advanced search
275647 Posts in 27717 Topics by 4285 Members Latest Member: - Jason DAngelo Most online today: 72 - most online ever: 565 (October 17, 2020, 02:08:06 PM)
Pages: [1] 2 3
Print
Author Topic: A few Questions  (Read 12177 times)
Heavenlyrock
Member

Posts: 10


« on: January 14, 2003, 12:10:55 PM »

I am pretty new to this game. I have read the book and I am familiar enough were to find things if I do not recall them. I am also GMing it for my friends, so I had a few questions I wanted to get resolved, so we weren't just making stuff up... we try to use the rules as much as possible.  My questions are kind of lengthy, want to give a good foundation for the replies, so please bear with them.  Also I am new to this site and beg your forgiveness for any questions that might have been answered in previous threads.  So my questions were...

1. What exactly does shield do for a character? One of the guys is a Flail/sheild character, well we were running mock combats to familiarize everyone with the system... he and another were fighting and he was hit… we know that in order to block the attack you use your CP that you set aside for blocking and roll the target number of the shield. well the attacker succeeded, but the blocker did get a success... we figured that it meant that he blocked a portion of the attack but not successful enough to deflect it. So that is were we had the question... the attack was on the right side of the body, can the sheild even block that side, are you supposed to stand with the sheild facing your opponent and your body sideways reducing area to be hit like you should, does it add to the armor that you have even though you didn't block the attack fully, and any other comments?

2. Two opponents rolling red dice... this is a clarification question really. When two people throw red dice they both roll off according to the directions using thier Reflex against their weapons target number if they keep rolled tie, they keep rolling until they don't tie right (all thier stats that should have broken ties are the same)? What I gather from what is stated is that the one that wins the initiative goes first, what if one wants to use the manuever "Simultaneous Block and Strike," then the one who won initiative succeeds at wounding the other enough to kill him in one blow does the other get to strike also before he hits the ground dead? The same would go for if the one wouldn't have used the manuever right, if they both were just going to normally attack, would the other still be able to get thier attack off?  Also the rules state that the one who has the lower reflexive value declares first, but attacks are resolved with the one who has the highest reflexive value first.  I was wondering why this was so? Shouldn’t the one who is slower have the benefit of seeing what the opponent might do before he acts himself, thereby changing his attack?

3.  I am a little uncertain about were exactly weapons are allowed to target… From my understanding the reading in The Codex of Battle all swinging weapons hit areas I -VI, and VII – XIV was for thrusting/piercing weapons… however the charts in back say that cutting weapons can hit I – VII, puncture VIII – XIV, and Bludgeon can hit all areas? So which is correct that the type of damage hits a certain area or the way the weapon is used, or both (the way the weapon is used as a foundation of the starting numbers (I – VI, or VII - XIV) and then the type of damage the weapon causes for the exact location)?
Logged
Spartan
Member

Posts: 192


WWW
« Reply #1 on: January 14, 2003, 01:28:06 PM »

Quote from: Heavenlyrock
I am pretty new to this game.


Welcome aboard. :)

Quote
1. What exactly does shield do for a character? One of the guys is a Flail/sheild character, well we were running mock combats to familiarize everyone with the system... he and another were fighting and he was hit… we know that in order to block the attack you use your CP that you set aside for blocking and roll the target number of the shield. well the attacker succeeded, but the blocker did get a success... we figured that it meant that he blocked a portion of the attack but not successful enough to deflect it. So that is were we had the question... the attack was on the right side of the body, can the sheild even block that side, are you supposed to stand with the sheild facing your opponent and your body sideways reducing area to be hit like you should, does it add to the armor that you have even though you didn't block the attack fully, and any other comments?


OK.  A shield can (of course) block incoming attacks.  What happens is that every one of your successes with shield negates one of the attacker's successes.  If you negate all of his successes (and no more), then you've narrowly been missed.  If you get MORE successes than the attacker, you have successfully blocked the attack and now take initiative (I think you already know this, but I just mentioned it for completeness).  As to whether the shield can block the non-shield side... well... I guess it depends on whether you have room to move.  During the course of a fight, the combatants end up circling each other many times.  As a GM, I'd allow it.  If the defender is somewhat restrained, then maybe I wouldn't.

Quote
2. Two opponents rolling red dice... this is a clarification question really. When two people throw red dice they both roll off according to the directions using thier Reflex against their weapons target number if they keep rolled tie, they keep rolling until they don't tie right (all thier stats that should have broken ties are the same)?


I'd leave ties as they are.  It wasn't that uncommon for fighters to die on each others' swords.  Of course, one can always try to buy initiative as often as you have dice for, I think.  Jake?

Quote
What I gather from what is stated is that the one that wins the initiative goes first, what if one wants to use the manuever "Simultaneous Block and Strike," then the one who won initiative succeeds at wounding the other enough to kill him in one blow does the other get to strike also before he hits the ground dead?


Don't think so, but I could be wrong.  If you've got a declared defence, I'd let it count.  It's not like you keep your shield behind your back waiting to be used.  It's right there.  I think the Simultaneous Block and Strike is just for those circumstances.

Quote
The same would go for if the one wouldn't have used the manuever right, if they both were just going to normally attack, would the other still be able to get thier attack off?  Also the rules state that the one who has the lower reflexive value declares first, but attacks are resolved with the one who has the highest reflexive value first.  I was wondering why this was so? Shouldn’t the one who is slower have the benefit of seeing what the opponent might do before he acts himself, thereby changing his attack?


Reflex (IMO) also has to do with the ability to react to visual input.  The one with the higher reflex gets to see what his opponent is up to.

Quote
3.  I am a little uncertain about were exactly weapons are allowed to target…


There are typos regarding strike locations.  I fixed them in the Errata, but for completeness... I-VII are for swinging attacks.  VIII-XIII are for thrusts.

Again, welcome.  I hope you're having as much fun as we are!

-Mark
Logged

And remember kids... Pillage first, THEN burn.
Jake Norwood
Member

Posts: 2261


WWW
« Reply #2 on: January 14, 2003, 03:31:10 PM »

Quote

Quote
2. Two opponents rolling red dice... this is a clarification question really. When two people throw red dice they both roll off according to the directions using thier Reflex against their weapons target number if they keep rolled tie, they keep rolling until they don't tie right (all thier stats that should have broken ties are the same)?



I'd leave ties as they are. It wasn't that uncommon for fighters to die on each others' swords. Of course, one can always try to buy initiative as often as you have dice for, I think. Jake?


If the Reflex Roll is tied, then go to a WP roll, as stated in Book One for resolving Ties.

But yeah, especially in the case of thrusts, both guys died all time.

Jake
Logged

"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -R.E. Howard The Tower of the Elephant
___________________
www.theriddleofsteel.NET
Brian Leybourne
Member

Posts: 1793


« Reply #3 on: January 14, 2003, 04:31:36 PM »

Quote
1. What exactly does shield do for a character? One of the guys is a Flail/sheild character, well we were running mock combats to familiarize everyone with the system... he and another were fighting and he was hit… we know that in order to block the attack you use your CP that you set aside for blocking and roll the target number of the shield. well the attacker succeeded, but the blocker did get a success... we figured that it meant that he blocked a portion of the attack but not successful enough to deflect it. So that is were we had the question... the attack was on the right side of the body, can the sheild even block that side, are you supposed to stand with the sheild facing your opponent and your body sideways reducing area to be hit like you should, does it add to the armor that you have even though you didn't block the attack fully, and any other comments?


It's worth mentioning that there are 2 benefits from shields. Spartan is basically right, but a little confusing I think :-)

Firstly, you can use them to block. Any attack can be blocked, regardless of where you're being attacked, and the advantage is that the blocking TN is usually lower than a parry or evade. Successes cancel attacking successes as Spartan said.

You also get the AV of the shield depending on where the attack hit. This has nothing to do with how well you blocked or didn't block, it's taking note of the fact that some parts of your body are covered by default by a shield just because of where you hold it. What's covered is determined by the size of the shield - bucklers might only give their AV against arm attacks, while tower shields should protect everything from the chest to the upper legs on the shield side. There are no hard-and-fast rules for what shields cover what areas, it's left to seneschal discretion.

Quote
What I gather from what is stated is that the one that wins the initiative goes first, what if one wants to use the manuever "Simultaneous Block and Strike," then the one who won initiative succeeds at wounding the other enough to kill him in one blow does the other get to strike also before he hits the ground dead?


Even if you have to go second, you still get the benefit of sim block/strike or evasive attack defenses.

Quote
3.  I am a little uncertain about were exactly weapons are allowed to target…


You swing at locations 1-7. You thrust at locations 8-14. Bashing attacks can go at any location, because they're a swinging blunt attack (like a club) or a thrusting blunt attack (like a punch).

Hope that helps,
Brian.
Logged

Brian Leybourne
bleybourne@gmail.com

RPG Books: Of Beasts and Men, The Flower of Battle, The TROS Companion
Aaron
Member

Posts: 102


« Reply #4 on: January 14, 2003, 05:38:25 PM »

Quote from: Brian Leybourne

You also get the AV of the shield depending on where the attack hit. This has nothing to do with how well you blocked or didn't block, it's taking note of the fact that some parts of your body are covered by default by a shield just because of where you hold it. What's covered is determined by the size of the shield - bucklers might only give their AV against arm attacks, while tower shields should protect everything from the chest to the upper legs on the shield side. There are no hard-and-fast rules for what shields cover what areas, it's left to seneschal discretion.



Now I have a bit of a problem working this one out.  Since there is no distinction within the system on which side of your opponents body you have to attack, you can swing either left to right right to left and stab just about anywhere, who in their right mind would ever atack the side the shield protecting?  In the combat example he attacks the same side twice.  By saying the shield protects the side it is on is ok but unless the rule system suggest I have to attack that side then I never would therefore nullifying the shield advantage.  In the case of multiple opponents I suppose it is possible to say one is attacking on one side and the second on the other so one has to try and get past the shield, but since each phase everyone is moving around how do you decide who? And how does a seneschal decide whether that blow you just did/received caused a level 5 wound in the chest blood pumping everywhere or just "decides" it hits the shield and does nothing?  I would be interested to know how people are playing shield in their games and whether the rules will be changed in TFOB.
Logged
Shadeling
Member

Posts: 314


WWW
« Reply #5 on: January 14, 2003, 05:45:41 PM »

Quote from: Aaron

Now I have a bit of a problem working this one out.  Since there is no distinction within the system on which side of your opponents body you have to attack, you can swing either left to right right to left and stab just about anywhere, who in their right mind would ever atack the side the shield protecting?  In the combat example he attacks the same side twice.  By saying the shield protects the side it is on is ok but unless the rule system suggest I have to attack that side then I never would therefore nullifying the shield advantage.  In the case of multiple opponents I suppose it is possible to say one is attacking on one side and the second on the other so one has to try and get past the shield, but since each phase everyone is moving around how do you decide who? And how does a seneschal decide whether that blow you just did/received caused a level 5 wound in the chest blood pumping everywhere or just "decides" it hits the shield and does nothing?  I would be interested to know how people are playing shield in their games and whether the rules will be changed in TFOB.


Someone with a shield is going to do his or her best to interpose it between themselves and their opponent, hence the block defense. If you could so easily slip apast someone's shield, without any effort, there would not be much purpose for Duck and Weave defense...which in its description says-gets you past your opponents shield. That is my take on everything.
Logged

The shadow awakens from its slumber in darkness. It consumes my heart.
Brian Leybourne
Member

Posts: 1793


« Reply #6 on: January 14, 2003, 05:58:21 PM »

Quote from: Aaron
Now I have a bit of a problem working this one out.  Since there is no distinction within the system on which side of your opponents body you have to attack, you can swing either left to right right to left and stab just about anywhere, who in their right mind would ever atack the side the shield protecting?  In the combat example he attacks the same side twice.  By saying the shield protects the side it is on is ok but unless the rule system suggest I have to attack that side then I never would therefore nullifying the shield advantage.  In the case of multiple opponents I suppose it is possible to say one is attacking on one side and the second on the other so one has to try and get past the shield, but since each phase everyone is moving around how do you decide who? And how does a seneschal decide whether that blow you just did/received caused a level 5 wound in the chest blood pumping everywhere or just "decides" it hits the shield and does nothing?  I would be interested to know how people are playing shield in their games and whether the rules will be changed in TFOB.


It comes down to how you want to play. The flow of battle dictates which attacks are available following other attacks. It's not particularly reasonable, for example, for a thrust at the legs to be immediately followed up with a swing at the head. I encourage my players to be realistic and logical in which moves follow which moves, and use a carrot/stick approach to make sure they do :-)

As for the Seneschal deciding if an attack hits the shield or not, well, nobody said his job was easy :-) If you don't like that, make a random roll to see if the shield happened to be in the way.

Brian.
Logged

Brian Leybourne
bleybourne@gmail.com

RPG Books: Of Beasts and Men, The Flower of Battle, The TROS Companion
Spartan
Member

Posts: 192


WWW
« Reply #7 on: January 15, 2003, 01:26:38 AM »

Quote from: Brian Leybourne
Spartan is basically right, but a little confusing I think :-)


Who, me? ;)  Where on earth did you get such a notion? *cough* *cough*...  

heh heh...  I think I get it from playing too much Rolemaster or something... ;)

Obsfucatingly,
-Mark
Logged

And remember kids... Pillage first, THEN burn.
Mokkurkalfe
Member

Posts: 340


« Reply #8 on: January 15, 2003, 07:59:00 AM »

Quote from: Shadeling


Someone with a shield is going to do his or her best to interpose it between themselves and their opponent, hence the block defense. If you could so easily slip apast someone's shield, without any effort, there would not be much purpose for Duck and Weave defense...which in its description says-gets you past your opponents shield. That is my take on everything.



Aaah. You've cleared away all my doubts on the subject.
Logged

Joakim (with a k!) Israelsson
Shadeling
Member

Posts: 314


WWW
« Reply #9 on: January 15, 2003, 08:04:36 AM »

Quote from: Mokkurkalfe
Quote from: Shadeling


Someone with a shield is going to do his or her best to interpose it between themselves and their opponent, hence the block defense. If you could so easily slip apast someone's shield, without any effort, there would not be much purpose for Duck and Weave defense...which in its description says-gets you past your opponents shield. That is my take on everything.



Aaah. You've cleared away all my doubts on the subject.


Glad to hear :)
Logged

The shadow awakens from its slumber in darkness. It consumes my heart.
Durgil
Member

Posts: 306


« Reply #10 on: January 15, 2003, 08:17:01 AM »

Quote from: Brian Leybourne
The flow of battle dictates which attacks are available following other attacks. It's not particularly reasonable, for example, for a thrust at the legs to be immediately followed up with a swing at the head. I encourage my players to be realistic and logical in which moves follow which moves, and use a carrot/stick approach to make sure they do :-)

Brian.

Is there anything out there in the way of a reference that those of use who have absolutely no experience in reenactments go to help in that decision making process?
Logged

Tony Hamilton

Shadeling
Member

Posts: 314


WWW
« Reply #11 on: January 15, 2003, 08:26:12 AM »

Quote from: Durgil
Quote from: Brian Leybourne
The flow of battle dictates which attacks are available following other attacks. It's not particularly reasonable, for example, for a thrust at the legs to be immediately followed up with a swing at the head. I encourage my players to be realistic and logical in which moves follow which moves, and use a carrot/stick approach to make sure they do :-)

Brian.

Is there anything out there in the way of a reference that those of use who have absolutely no experience in reenactments go to help in that decision making process?


My group and myself have no reenactment xp...we just do what realisticly and dramatically makes the most sense.
Logged

The shadow awakens from its slumber in darkness. It consumes my heart.
Jake Norwood
Member

Posts: 2261


WWW
« Reply #12 on: January 15, 2003, 08:29:26 AM »

Understand that the kernel of TROS combat was written entirely on...*gasp*...stuff I saw in movies. Writing TROS is what dragged me into the ARMA several years ago, but the original concepts came before that based on what Shadeling said--common sense and dramatic appropriateness.

I run sheilds like this...my players specify if they're attacking the shield side or not. Usually it ends up not (go firgure). That meanst that the #1 bonus of a shield in my games is the low DTN, followed by the bonus maneuvers. The AV on a shield is really only for folks who are strong enough to bash through the sucker with, say, and ax.

Jake
Logged

"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -R.E. Howard The Tower of the Elephant
___________________
www.theriddleofsteel.NET
Durgil
Member

Posts: 306


« Reply #13 on: January 15, 2003, 09:17:31 AM »

Quote from: Jake Norwood
The AV on a shield is really only for folks who are strong enough to bash through the sucker with, say, an ax.

Jake

Kind of like in The Lord of the Rings where the Lord of the Nazgűl splintered Éowyn's shield and broke her arm with a single swing of his mace in the Battle of the Pelennor Fields?
Logged

Tony Hamilton

Jake Norwood
Member

Posts: 2261


WWW
« Reply #14 on: January 15, 2003, 11:41:37 AM »

Yeah, like that.

See, TROS is caught between two worlds. The first one is that of historical precedent and fiction-that-mirrors-reality.

The second is literature along the lines of TLotR and the other stuff mentioned in the Seneschal and World sections of the core book.

Some items are one, others are the other, and a few are both. Pick and choose to taste.

Jake
Logged

"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -R.E. Howard The Tower of the Elephant
___________________
www.theriddleofsteel.NET
Pages: [1] 2 3
Print
Jump to:  

Powered by MySQL Powered by PHP Powered by SMF 1.1.11 | SMF © 2006-2009, Simple Machines LLC
Oxygen design by Bloc
Valid XHTML 1.0! Valid CSS!