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Author Topic: Multiple Opponents, again  (Read 17945 times)
arxhon
Member

Posts: 254


« on: April 09, 2003, 12:59:16 PM »

I'm confused by the "multiple opponents rule".

When it sys "split combat pool by opponents", and all parties drop red, does this mean:

a. The PC mayattack both opponents by splitting his pool, thereby giving him multiple attacks in an exchange, or

b. The PC may only attack one opponent, and gets stuck by the second attacker, or

c. the PC may use the combat pool directed to the secondary party(s) for Defensive Maneuvers only.

In my game last night, there were several scenes where the PC's were attacked by a groups of spearmen, at times 2 or 3 to one. We kind of muddled our way through it.
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Brian Leybourne
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Posts: 1793


« Reply #1 on: April 09, 2003, 01:07:45 PM »

A.

And if he chooses to attack them all he's probably dead, unless his CP is massive.

The best way to handle multiple opponents? Full Evasion and a terrain roll next round.

Brian.
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Brian Leybourne
bleybourne@gmail.com

RPG Books: Of Beasts and Men, The Flower of Battle, The TROS Companion
arxhon
Member

Posts: 254


« Reply #2 on: April 09, 2003, 03:27:14 PM »

This is an interesting wrinkle then. I'm not challenging you, Brian, i'm just exploring the system a little.

Therefore, good combat PC's with active SA's can handle two opponents or even 3 at a time. They just throw red, and blenderize them. Not that this is really bad, actually. It gives combat characters an extra edge of cool "He killed three men in blink of an eye" action.

Of course, if the PC missed, or if his enemies defended, the PC could be in a world of hurt.
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Ashren Va'Hale
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Posts: 427


« Reply #3 on: April 09, 2003, 03:38:51 PM »

I had a combat beast with lots of sa's take out several Gol captains at a time by dividing the combat pool. I find the best approach is goad the attackers into a red red situation then attack and when that constest of reflex and land both attacks, unopposed on both enemies with a split pool, kill them fast.

Terrain roles work good too if available, also use terrain to your advantage (high ground etc.)
 And use all appropriate maneuvers when possible.

Running like a little sissy also works real well.
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Philosophy: Take whatever is not nailed down, for the rest, well thats what movement is for!
Brian Leybourne
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Posts: 1793


« Reply #4 on: April 09, 2003, 03:47:00 PM »

Quote from: arxhon
This is an interesting wrinkle then. I'm not challenging you, Brian, i'm just exploring the system a little.


Always challenge. Always. The world would be a boring place if everyone agreed on everything all the time :-)

Quote from: arxhon
Therefore, good combat PC's with active SA's can handle two opponents or even 3 at a time. They just throw red, and blenderize them. Not that this is really bad, actually. It gives combat characters an extra edge of cool "He killed three men in blink of an eye" action.


Damn cool. Think of the scene in the hallway at the end of Princess Bride, where Inigo drops four guardsmen in about 2-3 seconds because they're standing between him and Count Rugen. Tell me that wasn't throwing red and declaring attacks at more than one guard per round.

It's also not unrealistic really, in my fencing days I saw sabre affictioniadios take on two guys at once (who were quite new to the sabre) and run between them, landing blows on both before either of them could land a blow on him. In TROS terms he had a far bigger CP, is all.

Quote from: arxhon
Of course, if the PC missed, or if his enemies defended, the PC could be in a world of hurt.


That's right. Thus the terrian roll fallback. You can play it safe(r) with terrain, or you can go all out and hope that you really are heaps better than them... TROS, like life, is sometimes a big gamble, but he who dares wins, right?

Brian.
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Brian Leybourne
bleybourne@gmail.com

RPG Books: Of Beasts and Men, The Flower of Battle, The TROS Companion
arxhon
Member

Posts: 254


« Reply #5 on: April 09, 2003, 04:01:01 PM »

Perfect. :-) Thanks for clearing this up, Brian.

One of my players had 21 dice (the character's a fairly skilled swordsman, and was firing SA's off with bonus dice for being mounted) in his pool at one point, and we weren't sure what to do. Multiple attacks seemed pretty strange to us.... it felt "too powerful".  I gotta keep remembering: "Forget game balance."

Next session, he'll be slicing and dicing like crazy. It's what he wants. It'll be beautiful. :-)
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Jake Norwood
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« Reply #6 on: April 09, 2003, 04:20:04 PM »

Just remember that you still only get one exchange (meaning one attack) for each opponent. So if you're dividing between 3 guys you get 3 actions, but against one guy you get one. Tops.

Jake
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"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -R.E. Howard The Tower of the Elephant
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Brian Leybourne
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Posts: 1793


« Reply #7 on: April 09, 2003, 04:24:12 PM »

Quote from: arxhon
One of my players had 21 dice (the character's a fairly skilled swordsman, and was firing SA's off with bonus dice for being mounted) in his pool at one point, and we weren't sure what to do.


Hack, chop, rinse, repeat. :-)

Once OBAM comes out you'll see that the rules for armor while mounted are slightly less restrictive than in the main book (but if you give the horse barding, the CP penalty for that comes off the riders CP because the horse is laden down and thus it's harder to maneuver it into just the right positions for your attacks etc). That along with some nifty maneuvers you can do on horseback means he'll have even more fun :-)

Brian.
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Brian Leybourne
bleybourne@gmail.com

RPG Books: Of Beasts and Men, The Flower of Battle, The TROS Companion
Mike Holmes
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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Posts: 10459


« Reply #8 on: April 10, 2003, 08:07:00 AM »

Quote from: Jake Norwood
Just remember that you still only get one exchange (meaning one attack) for each opponent. So if you're dividing between 3 guys you get 3 actions, but against one guy you get one. Tops.


Hmmm. Why? If a player want's to split his own pool against a single opponent, then why shouldn't be be allowed to? Representing a "combo" or somesuch? I mean, it's not a tactically sound thing to do as far as I can see, but there might be cases where it makes sense. Or just to look cool.

The defending player would see the split coming, and choose to defend them each as he saw fit.

Are there any mechanical problems that I'm not seeing (probably are, this just seems like a cool way to generalize the rule to me).

Mike
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Valamir
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« Reply #9 on: April 10, 2003, 09:33:41 AM »

Actually, Mike I think that would be fine...and much better as a general rule.  If i can swing once at you and once at him, then I should be able to swing twice at you...

There might be a slight edge to the attacker due to the granularity of the dice...might require the defender to use an extra die to get the same level of defense, but that should be mitigated by the decrease in average damage...two level 3 wounds being inferior to a level 6 wound.
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Jake Norwood
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« Reply #10 on: April 10, 2003, 09:39:23 AM »

There's a few reasons for not being allowed more than 2 exchanges per opponent per round. One is that it's messy as crap, and will lead to lots of un-defended attacks, meaning that whoever is stingiest with their dice will hack the other up in all kind of ways. It really breaks down the combat model. On the other hand attacking many opponents is possible, because of the different angles possible, etc, that doesn't happen with one guy. Splitting your pool against one guy is allowed in a few maneuvers (block and strike, double strike), where it's a bit more cntrolled. But saying "you get as many exchanges as you want" turns the game into a different animal.

Jake
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"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -R.E. Howard The Tower of the Elephant
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Mike Holmes
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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Posts: 10459


« Reply #11 on: April 10, 2003, 10:22:17 AM »

Quote from: Jake Norwood
But saying "you get as many exchanges as you want" turns the game into a different animal.


Hmmm. Mind if we look at that animal here? I'm intrigued.

Mike
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Valamir
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« Reply #12 on: April 10, 2003, 11:29:25 AM »

Well I suppose it could be taken to an extreme...10 1-die attacks against an opponent with 8 dice guarentees 2 free 1 die hits (which with suitably damaging weapons are still potentially nasty).
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Mike Holmes
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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Posts: 10459


« Reply #13 on: April 10, 2003, 11:35:28 AM »

How about an easy balancer? For each attack after the first, you have to pay a die?

Then you line up your attacks on the table, and allow the defender to line up defenses across.

Mike
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Valamir
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« Reply #14 on: April 10, 2003, 11:55:22 AM »

That would probably work, and fits well with the CP cost precedent of other moves.  Should apply to multiple opponents also.  10, one die attacks against 10 peasants doesn't really fly with me either...
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