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Author Topic: Lame question about dodging missile fire  (Read 6887 times)
arxhon
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Posts: 254


« on: May 21, 2003, 01:47:39 PM »

Ok, how does avoiding missile fire work?

I figure a full or partial evasion (probably full, since it's easier to pull off) would cover someone who is not blocking an arrow with a shield, but would you simply use basic Reflex to perform the evasion?
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Salamander
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Posts: 450


« Reply #1 on: May 21, 2003, 02:15:35 PM »

Quote from: arxhon
Ok, how does avoiding missile fire work?

I figure a full or partial evasion (probably full, since it's easier to pull off) would cover someone who is not blocking an arrow with a shield, but would you simply use basic Reflex to perform the evasion?


As an archer I would say that avoiding direct missile fire (not a following arc) involves cowering behind cover, or perhaps a shield. If you haven't a shield or cover, pray your armour can absorb it. Got no armour?

*smirk*

What are you doing there in the first place?!

Okay, from what I have been able to tell the rules are set up so that you can put your shield between you and the missile fire. This is afforded to you under the block maneuver (I would add a +1 or +2 tot he DTN). Otherwise, you should not be able to evade missile fire (Oh, okay, using REF with a TN of their total MP). If he is going to hit you, he is going to hit you. Moving out of the way at the last moment is something that is either dumb luck, or the movie plot demands the guy continue to live for the story...

So back to the luck thing. I would allow the person to evade, using his Luck SA dice pool only.

Just my humble opinion based upon my meagre experience as an archer. (Compound Bow (55 - 85#, forget the draw), Compound Crossbow (150#), Long Bow (100#, forget the draw)).
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"Don't fight your opponent's sword, fight your opponent. For as you fight my sword, I shall fight you. My sword shall be nicked, your body shall be peirced through and I shall have a new sword".
Jake Norwood
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« Reply #2 on: May 21, 2003, 04:17:28 PM »

Someone might look this up, but I believe the book says it's a partial evade.

jake
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Jason Kottler
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« Reply #3 on: May 23, 2003, 10:37:45 AM »

My gut says the following:

Nobody can just dodge missiles. Almost anything moving fast enough to impart significant KE from a lightweight projectile is going to be moving right along. Sling stones, arrows, bolts, what have you, are all light missiles that get their damage from speed. Thrown weapons that are heavier, such as axes or something, might be moving slowly enough to be different, but I'm not sure.

That means that evading a projectile has to begin well before the shot is fired. Someone who knows he's under fire will do just what people do today: Stay low, move erratically, etc.. I'm not holding my book at the moment, but isn't there an ATN modifier for target movement? If there isn't, maybe something like slow movement = +1 ATN, fast movement = +2, irregular movement another +1 on top of the speed modifier.

That way, a guy who's actively dodging missile fire by running, weaving, feinting, etc., would be a LOT harder to hit than a guy standing still or a guy walking from one point to another.

This makes some sense to me. But "dodging" after the missile is loosed? No way.

I guess the difference turns on this: One is making yourself a more difficult target by making it harder for the archer (or whatever) to know which volume you'll be occupying at a given moment, whereas the other involves trying to get out of a particular space in the time between when the arrow is released and when it gets to where you are.
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Jason Kottler -Ultrablamtacular!
Ashren Va'Hale
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Posts: 427


« Reply #4 on: May 23, 2003, 08:51:15 PM »

I do it like this, if the player is aware that he is being shot at I let him dodge using reflex unless he can justify his action allowing his full CP (sometimes its valid). but if the projectile is in the air, well, sorry- Hope you have some luck die ready.

Reason being is that an erratic but unaware opponent is difficult to hit, an aware opponent actively avoiding your aim is opposition to your shot thus the added contested rolls INSTEAD of erratic movement penalty.

This is ofcourse my  in house rule.
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Philosophy: Take whatever is not nailed down, for the rest, well thats what movement is for!
Ben
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Posts: 55


« Reply #5 on: May 23, 2003, 09:58:52 PM »

As an archer, myself, I would say it's very possible to dodge direct missle fire (from a single shooter in sight) without all the running and weaving. If you can see it coming, you can get out of the way. Though, if you hear the bow twang, you're probally dead, but if you see the release, you've got a chance. Some people (with years of training) have been known to catch the darn things (and I don't mean by the pointy end). Hell, a few weeks ago I was successfully dodgeing paintballs and my fitness level is not to good these days. If you can see it, you can most likly dodge. It's usually not the one you see that gets you, it's his bastard friend that shoots you in the kidney from the side while you're distracted.
Having evaded a fair number of rocks and baseballs, the 'slower'  heavier missiles should be considerably easier. It's catching them thats the tricky part. But don't try that with darts, no matter how sober you are.
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Lance D. Allen
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« Reply #6 on: May 24, 2003, 06:31:11 AM »

In dodging arrows (and this is surmise, not experience of course) I'd imagine it's the same principle as dodging bullets; dodge immediately before they release. If you dodge too soon, they can adjust their aim. If you dodge too late, you're likely not going to get out of the way in time. But if you dodge precisely before they release, you will not be there when the projectile reaches where you were.

So dodging is perfectly feasible.
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~Lance Allen
Wolves Den Publishing
Eternally Incipient Publisher of Mage Blade, ReCoil and Rats in the Walls
Jason Lee
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Posts: 729


« Reply #7 on: May 24, 2003, 07:19:03 AM »

Quote from: Wolfen
In dodging arrows (and this is surmise, not experience of course) I'd imagine it's the same principle as dodging bullets; dodge immediately before they release. If you dodge too soon, they can adjust their aim. If you dodge too late, you're likely not going to get out of the way in time. But if you dodge precisely before they release, you will not be there when the projectile reaches where you were.


Interestingly enough (or not so interestingly enough, as the case may be) the principles are the same for getting punched in the head.  Though, I bet the margin for error is a lot smaller.
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- Cruciel
Ben
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Posts: 55


« Reply #8 on: May 24, 2003, 02:30:09 PM »

Quote from: Wolfen
In dodging arrows (and this is surmise, not experience of course) I'd imagine it's the same principle as dodging bullets; dodge immediately before they release. If you dodge too soon, they can adjust their aim. If you dodge too late, you're likely not going to get out of the way in time. But if you dodge precisely before they release, you will not be there when the projectile reaches where you were.

So dodging is perfectly feasible.


What you're talking about is more like dodgeing their aim rather than their projectile. For arrows, this would be probably be the case under 20yrds. More than that would give considerable leeway. As for actually dodgeing bullets, I don't think that's possible.
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Lance D. Allen
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« Reply #9 on: May 25, 2003, 05:54:27 AM »

If someone is shooting at you, and you're moving to avoid being hit, you're dodging bullets, IMO. Obviously matrix-style dodging bullets is impossible (or at least so improbable as to be basically impossible).

The principle is still the same, so says I. If someone is standing close enough to you for you to see that they're actually aiming the bow directly at you and you wait until the arrow is loosed to begin moving out of the way, the chances of you doing so successfully are between slim and none. Not impossible, but highly improbable.
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~Lance Allen
Wolves Den Publishing
Eternally Incipient Publisher of Mage Blade, ReCoil and Rats in the Walls
Ben
Member

Posts: 55


« Reply #10 on: May 26, 2003, 03:08:12 PM »

Quote from: Wolfen
If someone is shooting at you, and you're moving to avoid being hit, you're dodging bullets, IMO. Obviously matrix-style dodging bullets is impossible (or at least so improbable as to be basically impossible).

The principle is still the same, so says I. If someone is standing close enough to you for you to see that they're actually aiming the bow directly at you and you wait until the arrow is loosed to begin moving out of the way, the chances of you doing so successfully are between slim and none. Not impossible, but highly improbable.


I'm curious to know how close you think one needs to be and how much you think one needs to move.
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arxhon
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Posts: 254


« Reply #11 on: May 28, 2003, 10:24:59 AM »

I've been flipping through the book and i am unable to find where dodging missile fire it mentioned. Anyone help me out?
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Ben
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Posts: 55


« Reply #12 on: May 28, 2003, 11:14:38 AM »

Quote from: arxhon
I've been flipping through the book and i am unable to find where dodging missile fire it mentioned. Anyone help me out?


There's a small bit on pg.84
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arxhon
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Posts: 254


« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2003, 05:42:50 PM »

Cool, thanks Ben.
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