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Author Topic: Elves  (Read 8887 times)
Sir Mathodius Black
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Posts: 132


« on: July 09, 2003, 11:34:15 AM »

I was wondering why elves start with only 4 SA's to begin with.  It doesnt make much sense to me, and i would even argue that because of their age they would even have more SA's because theyve had alot of time to nurture passions (or hatreds), contemplat etheir faith, and persue their drives and destinies.  What are your thoughts on this?  Also, will Sorc. and the Fey be giving stats for different kinds of elves (dark/drow, sylvan ect...) or is that something we have to think up on our own?
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Lance D. Allen
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« Reply #1 on: July 09, 2003, 12:07:45 PM »

1. Elves and SAs: The reason, I'm sure, has to do with their long lives. Elves and the Fae in general, have often been portrayed as creatures of strong habit, overwhelming ennui, and a somewhat lackadaisical attitude toward goals. They've got almost literally forever.. so they rarely feel motivated the way we humans, with our itty-bitty lifespans, do. Why should they be driven to become king, when their long-term idle manipulations will probably get them there someday? Why should they passionately hate someone who they've got all eternity to either kill, or outlive? And even the brightest flame of love is muted when you have all of time to enjoy it.

This longevity also explains the lowered MA. They aren't as concerned with learning, because it can always be done... later.

2. Elf variants in SatF: By all that is holy, I hope not. These are the elves of myth, not the elves of D&D. All elves should be somewhat sylvan, and I've always disliked the very concept of "dark" elves. Not in color mind, because elves in my mind can have any coloring imaginable as creatures of Fae, but in that a whole culture of elves are "evil". If you want evil elves, then you've got the Unseelie Court. Use it as you wish.

This is, as always, simply my opinion.
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~Lance Allen
Wolves Den Publishing
Eternally Incipient Publisher of Mage Blade, ReCoil and Rats in the Walls
spunky
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Posts: 61


« Reply #2 on: July 09, 2003, 12:35:09 PM »

Quote from: Wolfen
...I've always disliked the very concept of "dark" elves. Not in color mind, because elves in my mind can have any coloring imaginable as creatures of Fae, but in that a whole culture of elves are "evil". If you want evil elves, then you've got the Unseelie Court. Use it as you wish.

This is, as always, simply my opinion.


For evil elves (or "Ahlvsees," check out Wick & Denmark's ORKWORLD.  Not only are they immortal, magically powerful, but also universally amoral, revering only Strength.

To quote: "Elven culture has no code of laws.  None.  Not a single law to break.  Not a single law to uphold.  Why?

Because laws are the tools of the Weak to protect them from the Strong.

Think about it.

'Thou shall not steal.'  Why?  Because I'm too weak to keep the things I own myself.  'Thou shall not lie.'  Why?  Because I'm weak and other people are better at lying than me and I want to know when someone's lying because I can't tell on my own.  'Thou shall not kill.'  Why?  Because I can't protect myself."

You get the idea.  And the current TROS rules work just fine for these magnificent bastards.
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Sir Mathodius Black
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Posts: 132


« Reply #3 on: July 09, 2003, 12:52:46 PM »

hmm...elves seem suddenly sooo boring in ROS now that they dont really care about anything...oh well, i think ill revise them for my campaigns just to make them a little more exciting to play.
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Lance D. Allen
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« Reply #4 on: July 09, 2003, 12:59:06 PM »

Individuals care, but your character doesn't really become "someone" until you begin play. They're just another nameless, faceless guy. When play begins however, SAs can raise dramatically within a single session. Those original 4 points really don't matter so much, as good roleplaying of the character will raise them quickly.
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~Lance Allen
Wolves Den Publishing
Eternally Incipient Publisher of Mage Blade, ReCoil and Rats in the Walls
Nick the Nevermet
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Posts: 352


« Reply #5 on: July 10, 2003, 05:45:45 AM »

I agree with what Wolfen said about Elves & personal beliefs.

All of this is all my opinion, and IIRC, several people disagreed with me last time I brought it up, so take me with a grain of salt :-)

On the subject of Elven society, however, I have one and only one hope for them: Don't make them human.  In many fantasy games & fiction, a perfectly valid choice is made to make Elves another intelligent humanoid species, albeit it a very advanced & magical one.  

IMHO, This shouldn't happen in TROS.  Elven culture should be alien.  The folklore about their courts should be left contradictory, not because humanity doesn't have all the facts, but because it is incomprehensible.  Gols, Elves, Dwarves, Vilkolak, and everything else... we shouldn't think about these 'biologically.'  They are all expressions of magical forces in a humanoid form.  They are nature or hate or rage or whatever in the form of beings.  This also means that things are very variable.  I suspect that the hierarchy of faeries & their general attitudes in, say, Taveruun will be very different than those in, say, Picti.  The fey are not other human-like  societies, their 'society' is an expression to the nagic, nature, land, and human attitudes of the region in which they are from.

In my view, this means all kinds of fey are rare, and PC fey should only be allowable in very specific circumstances / campiagns.  As a GM, I'd think twice about a wizard, a human who uses magic, in a TROS game.  As a GM, I'd think three times about a fay PC, a character that is not human, but is magic.

PC supernaturals of all colors are a shade more 'human' than the rest of their ilk.  The player should during character creation explain why.  Maybe he/she is an exile.  Maybe the PC was sent to observe humanity.  Maybe he is protecting another PC, or shares a goal with the rest of the party.  The point is he's different because he's not chilling in the faerie court.  This ties in nicely with Wolfen's comments about the Player Character 'becoming' someone by being played.
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Jake Norwood
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« Reply #6 on: July 10, 2003, 09:03:38 AM »

Here here, Nick. I agree.

Jake
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"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -R.E. Howard The Tower of the Elephant
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Mike Holmes
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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« Reply #7 on: July 10, 2003, 09:55:55 AM »

Quote
PC supernaturals of all colors are a shade more 'human' than the rest of their ilk. The player should during character creation explain why.
Truthfully, I'd probably not allow fey PCs. I'd have to have a really tight group concept amongst all the players to explain how it works out.

What I mean is that it seems to me that the Fey are so rare and reclusive that they are almost never seen. Reclusive enough that they avoid being seen whenever possible. So what would a PC fey be doing out in the open if no other Fey do it? And what kind of a reaction would they cause? They'd probably be feeared at any first contact, and perhaps attacked based on superstition. If they managed to survive that, to the point where they became known and accepted as non-dangerous, I'd think that they'd achieve a near celebrity status just based on their novelty. I imagine people trying to touch the character to see if he's real.

How does such a character get to know the other PCs? How will they be able to react on an ongoing basis? It's just all far too weird.

Now, all of this would actually make for entertaining play, potentially, assuming a player who wanted it. I'd allow it in the case of the player who wanted to play out some story like this, and had a strong concept for being out in the open. But if the player just wanted a human with pointy ears, well, then I'm with Nick and Jake, and I don't want to have any of it. So, IMO, Fey PCs should be rare to non-existent.

Great NPCs, however, for the PCs to stumble upon.

Mike
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Jake Norwood
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« Reply #8 on: July 10, 2003, 10:00:00 AM »

I, on the other hand, LOVE running fey PCs. *But* there has to be significant focus on Fey culture, especially in early games, where the PC must interact a lot with his own kind to get the idea how it works, and to help "tell the story" to the players. If I ever finish S&F, this will be an important part of the book.

Jake
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"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -R.E. Howard The Tower of the Elephant
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Mike Holmes
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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« Reply #9 on: July 10, 2003, 10:03:38 AM »

Quote
If I ever finish S&F,...
You mean when you finish it.

Mike
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Nick the Nevermet
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« Reply #10 on: July 10, 2003, 10:48:35 AM »

A whole lot of 'if statements' have to get answered a specific way for a Fey character.  The right group, the right campaign, the right player, right character.  I guess that means that in theory, I agree with Jake, but in practice, I'd probably act similar to Mike.

But then, I have similar issues with all things magical for TROS *shrug*

What I don't have a problem with are quirks that make characters standing right next to Magic.  Maybe someone was born under a certain night sky.  Maybe training was given by a fey teacher (in combat or whatever).  Maybe you've inherited something that Uncle Jed got after being a guard in those Stahlnish mines ("Jed never spoke about those days...").  Assuming, of course, everyone is on the same page about what is ok and not ok, what 'fits' and what doesn't.
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Jake Norwood
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« Reply #11 on: July 10, 2003, 11:09:15 AM »

Nick-

That's really gold. I'm seeing all kind of star-born mechanics creeping around in there. Something to fill in the other race priorities...

Jake
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Morfedel
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Posts: 345


« Reply #12 on: July 10, 2003, 12:22:14 PM »

And I, for one, would LOVE to see those two gaping holes filled. They just bug the you-know-what out of me! :)

Hm. What about one being like "During the Day and Night of the star you were born under, you receive a +1 die to all checks" and a second for during like full moon, new moon, etc?

One occuring once a year, the other once a month, basically? (of course with 6 moons it would be a different story, but you see where I'm driving at).

Also, maybe just a +1 per year is too weak. But I'm just trying to trigger a conversation here.
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Jake Norwood
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« Reply #13 on: July 10, 2003, 01:19:40 PM »

Those are the lines I'm thinking on. Or something allowing glamour 1 or some other colorful little bit, but it has to drive story somehow, too.

Jake
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Nick the Nevermet
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Posts: 352


« Reply #14 on: July 11, 2003, 06:38:51 AM »

Quote from: Jake Norwood
Those are the lines I'm thinking on. Or something allowing glamour 1 or some other colorful little bit, but it has to drive story somehow, too.
Jake


Well, when you / someone writes S&F, there kind of needs to be a section on Magic & SAs.  Magical characters (especially Sorcerers & Fey) can't have purely human motivations & drives.  They just can't.  Actually, a better way of wroding it is their expression of their beliefs cannot be the same way as mortal humans.

I would have no problem with people born under various moons having as their 'big thing' a bonus to their destiny SA (Kinda like how Fahal gets a bonus on faith)
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