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Author Topic: New Methods of Proficiency Increase  (Read 6798 times)
Sir Mathodius Black
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Posts: 132


« on: July 13, 2003, 10:30:17 AM »

Hey,

I was going over possible character concepts, and I started thinking about a Gladiator.  Everything was sounding good, however that got me to thinking about SA's and proficiency advancement.  Basically, Gladiators dont really have time of their own to persue their SA's, yet they continuously improve their fighting technique.  This also got me thinking that it would make sense to have a way to advance your proficiencies through some other means besides SA's.

One idea i had was that by fighting a number of duels = to twice your current proficiency in a weapon, the proficiency would increase by one.  This does, however, present the problem of some people then making characters only focused with going around fighting duels instead of advancing their SA's.

So, Im now trying to think of a way through combat, training, or other means besides SA's to increase the proficiency in a weapon to represent comstant training in it, similar to the advancement of Skills, whilst still keeping the characters going with their SA's and not making them inot combat machines.  

Tell me what you think, how you handle this, and any suggestions please.

Thanks,
Sir Mathodius Black
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"God helps those who helps themselves."
Lxndr
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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« Reply #1 on: July 13, 2003, 10:59:57 AM »

First off, even if no other SAs might possibly apply to a particular gladiator, the SA of "Luck" seems vital for gladiatoral survivors.  The ones that survive more combats do so through a combination of skill and Luck, and thus would be able to spend that Luck to be better at skills.

Besides that, I have to ask why you think gladiators don't have time to pursue their own SAs?  Think about it - the gladiators most likely to come out on top, the ones most likely to include their skills, are DRIVEN to succeed.  Just within the arena, you've got: Hatreds/rivalries with other gladiators or perhaps your captors, drives/destinies to escape, a passion to become (and stay) the best, or perhaps just a passion for combat.

In short, the gladiators most likely to survive in the ring are either lucky or driven to succeed (or both).  Thus, why would SAs not apply in this situation?
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Sir Mathodius Black
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Posts: 132


« Reply #2 on: July 13, 2003, 11:03:11 AM »

Your right, in some situations SA's could apply, although i try to stay clear of SA's like Passion: COmbat or something like that.  However, many gladiators are slaves who spend 22 hours a day locked up and the others fighting.  I suppose there could be hatreds between gladiators ect. but i would still like to find a way to increase it through combat (if at all possible that is).
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"God helps those who helps themselves."
Jake Norwood
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« Reply #3 on: July 13, 2003, 12:06:01 PM »

Even slaves and prisoners have personal lives--things that are meaningful to them. Those things just might not do much for us.

So sure, there's your Hatred: so and so, and Drive: Kill Emporer Joaqin Pheonix, but there's also Drive: eat well, and Faith: Killing is wrong, or Passion: That chick that puts the slop in my bowl.

Everyone cares about something. Someone who doesn't curls up and dies. Those who care strongly improve.

Jake
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"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -R.E. Howard The Tower of the Elephant
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Salamander
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Posts: 450


« Reply #4 on: July 13, 2003, 12:24:52 PM »

How about the fact that they too can change their SA's... Instead of Destiny: to be King, how about Destiny: To be a famous and well loved Gladitor? Or perhaps, Drive: Survive the Games. Of course Drive: Gain Freedom. Then we have Luck & Conscience.
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"Don't fight your opponent's sword, fight your opponent. For as you fight my sword, I shall fight you. My sword shall be nicked, your body shall be peirced through and I shall have a new sword".
Morfedel
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Posts: 345


« Reply #5 on: July 13, 2003, 02:32:40 PM »

i'd figure in a culture that might allow a gladiator to win his freedom, that could be a major SA....
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Lebo77
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« Reply #6 on: July 13, 2003, 04:55:04 PM »

Destiny: I am Sparticus!
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Valamir
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« Reply #7 on: July 13, 2003, 06:27:04 PM »

Ummm.   Gladiators are prisoners.  Is there any one who doesn't think there's alot of intense drama going on in our prison system today?  Does not the existance of intense drama yield fertile ground for intense SAs?

Imagine Maximum Security at Levinworth, and then add in organized bloodsport for the entertainment of the populace.

Is there anyone who can't riff off a dozen SAs from a background environment like that?
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Sir Mathodius Black
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Posts: 132


« Reply #8 on: July 14, 2003, 08:55:05 AM »

I understand now that you guys mention it.  Gladiators/prisoners would actually have alot of drama.  Now my next question is, why is there no way to increase proficiencies through combat?  I understand that we dont want people running around looking for duels every 3 seconds, but what is the logical, real life explanation for proficiency advancement being through SA's rather than combat?

Thanks,
SMB
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Valamir
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« Reply #9 on: July 14, 2003, 09:04:19 AM »

Quote
logical, real life explanation for proficiency advancement being through SA's rather than combat?


There isn't one.  

Epic adventure does not require logical real life explanation.

...personally I'm more bugged that the skill advancement DOES attempt to have a real life emulative system.

IMO, Everything should have been tied to the SAs.  If I ever run a campaign,  I'll probably do it that way.  Especially if I start to hand out SAs at Ron's "Blood Opera" pace...haveing skills to spend the points on too will help moderate the advancement rate.
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Lxndr
Acts of Evil Playtesters
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« Reply #10 on: July 14, 2003, 09:08:19 AM »

Not to put words in anyone's mouth, but I think the answer is "there isn't one."  SA advancement is there for reasons other than a "logical, real life" explanation - it's there because of the style of play, and the priorities of play, the designers wanted to promote.

That being said, they aren't illogical or unreal, either.  A person who succeeds in learning something (combat or not) often imrpoves because of some driving reason to do so, be it external (a destiny), internal (a passion or drive), or something else directly related or indirectly related (I'm studying to become a doctor out of love for my father, and his expectations for his son!) to the task at hand.  And when all those fail, there's still Luck (especially important in combat).

Sure, someone who cares nothing whatsoever about getting better at combat might still get better if enough people attack him (assuming he doesn't, you know, die).  But either he survives through Luck, or he quickly starts to CARE about it, and begins to get better.

Edited in:  I'm new to the game and forgot until Valamir's post that skills have a real life emulative system.  Like him, I'd probably toss that too, barring odd situations where I, as GM, might say something like "okay, five years pass," in which case I'd allow some sort of improvement of both, as well as possibly even SA changes if the players desired, after all, five years is a long time...
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Morfedel
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Posts: 345


« Reply #11 on: July 14, 2003, 09:37:13 AM »

I agree with you, Valamir; I find it odd that everything else advancement-wise is linked to SAs, EXCEPT for skills... Seems a very odd exception.

Quote from: Valamir
Quote
logical, real life explanation for proficiency advancement being through SA's rather than combat?


There isn't one.  

Epic adventure does not require logical real life explanation.

...personally I'm more bugged that the skill advancement DOES attempt to have a real life emulative system.

IMO, Everything should have been tied to the SAs.  If I ever run a campaign,  I'll probably do it that way.  Especially if I start to hand out SAs at Ron's "Blood Opera" pace...haveing skills to spend the points on too will help moderate the advancement rate.
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Bankuei
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« Reply #12 on: July 14, 2003, 10:01:37 AM »

Hi guys,

I agree that its kinda quirky that the skills are based on usage, not SAs, but you know what?  I find that it actually better supports the kind of play I like.  Usually, in any game system, when the players have control over what to spend advancement points on next, the only things that usually get raised are combat/magic, or some other "vital" skill, sometimes without it being used at all.  

Under the current system, there's really only 2 things being pushed- SAs and skills.  The players are encouraged to use both in order to advance, and this does a LOT for turning TROS into more than hack and slash.

At first I was bothered by the inconsistancy, until I watched it operate in actual play, at which point it worked really well for me.

Chris
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Jake Norwood
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« Reply #13 on: July 14, 2003, 10:04:43 AM »

Thanks, Chris. Actual play shows all...good and bad.

Jake
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"Civilized men are more discourteous than savages because they know they can be impolite without having their skulls split, as a general thing." -R.E. Howard The Tower of the Elephant
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Caz
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Posts: 272


« Reply #14 on: July 14, 2003, 10:35:38 AM »

The way I see the real life explanation for SA's improving proficiencies, it that SA's are in a way, another term for your characters will.  His will or his drive for whatever purpose floats his boat, and when they're used to improve proficiencies, it's an abstraction of your character improving his skills through strength of will and drive to succeed in it.  His training and experience, though not an official part of the machanics, are all a part of it in my mind.  Make sense?
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