If it takes place in a feudal Japan like setting then it has to have ninjas.

  And if your gonna have Ninjas in your game it should be done right.

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Ninja were a reality of Ancient Japan, so of course they should be present in any game that attempts to model reality.

A lot of funky mystic powers were attributed to Ninja, but in reality they were just extremely good at what they did (infiltration, spying and assassination, primarily) and they used fear and exadurated rumors to keep people afraid of all their mystic abilities. On the other hand, Weyrth actually has magic, so there's no reason that the Ninja of Tengoku couldn't have some minor forms of magic, but (and it's a big but, Jennifer Lopez sized even) the primary thing to keep in mind about Ninja is that they were subtle and mysterious - they were not the "run around in full daylight in a black gi tossing shuriken and engaging in sword duels" that they're often presented as.

What is a ninja? It's someone very very highly trained in certain skills and with very high "dexterity-style" attributes (Agility, Wit etc). They're well trained in different forms of combat, are very good at the magicians trick of distraction, and probably they have special tricks such as exploding gas pellets (made with dirty gunpowder) and the like to make folk think they have magic. And that's probably all that needs to be said, to be honest, unless you like the idea of Weyrth Ninja somehow having real magic.

But subtle is the key. For gods sake, don't turn them into D&D ninja.

Brian.

My experience in L5R is that as soon as you introduce ninja into a samurai game either people want to be ninja, or people want to fight ninja, or just exalt in the coolness of ninja by dragging ninja associations into the game: "Our Lord is dead! Its a ninja attack!" or "My guy always wears a black kimono with no markings", or "I always sleep with a tanto under my mattress in case of Ninja".  

It can take ages to get it out your system. Ninja were just too powerful an icon in my youth and that of everyone I've ever role-played with. Japan - Ninja, Ninja - Japan. It goes together, and it can quickly force Samurai right out of the picture.

Alternatives to the traditional Stephen Hayes style RPG ninja PC (Martial arts monster + kewl sharp assasin weapons + amazing stealth training + esoteric ninja magic) could be

Ninja as NPCs only, providing cool foils for the PCs.

Ninja as a wicked occult force. Anyone performing sorcerous actions is effectively doing Ninja things and would be branded as such.

Anyone performing espionage or sabotage is effectively doing Ninja things and would be branded as such. Espionage & sabotage specialists may or may not live in hidden Ninja clans.

Tony

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edited because I kept adding an "s" after "ninja"

First, I want to agree with Brian on most of what he said.

Second, I think that since it is a fantasy game with magic, that ninja should be allowed to have magic.

Third, since they would be magic using characters, the priorities would have to be spent on them and they would be rare as PCs. And the GM should make them rare as NPCs, obviously.

Fourth, I think there should be a different kind of magic for the "oriental" style areas. Perhaps based on the same principles, but different. Thus the ninja magic could be a bit toned down perhaps.

Fifth, why tone it down? Because ninja operated in clans. A lone ninja was unheard of. So, if you have a clan of 50 ninja, and they're as powerful as a "normal" TROS sorcerer, then you've got problems....

Sixth, and last... Why have a seperate flavor of magic? Because the difference between east and west is a broad as night and day. Their myths and legends were completely different and that should be reflected in the game. As a westerner, going to Japan, for example, is as close to visiting another planet as possible without a rocket.

Brandon

For the record I'm not currently planning on any magic in the Japan book. There will be magic inspired by asian myth, etc. in Sorcery and the Fey, which will, of course, be compatible with TROS Japan, as well as compatible with the main book, but I want all mysticism to be treated as religion is treated in TROS...it takes faith. So there will be no magic except as a GM-controlled "was it even real?" plot device, used as the seer in Rashomon was. The TROS/Tengoku connection will be a smaller part of the book...really more of a "this is what we kept from real Japan, this is what's different, now use the rest of the book as-is" sort of thing.

I think that the idea of using Ninja with a very firm base--Ronin (or similar) spies, assassins, and espionage experts--is the way to go. Not only is it more interesting, but if the book is clear enough on it then the "Ninjas Rock!" people will be happy that there are Ninja in the book. The rest of us that want something more...complicated...can also be very happy. And everyone is happy. Yay!

Good recources? More opinions?

Jake

While my understanding of such things is limited, my own interpration of ninja was that they evolved from displaced monastaries driven underground by oppresive governments. In becoming covert and adapting to living within society (as opposed to out in the middle of nowhere), they began using their talents proactively, both for their own agendas and for pay. Also, I've always seen being a ninja as more of a mind-set than just someone who's really good at what they do. After all, to use a comic reference, while he is as skilled as any ninja, Wolverine is not a ninja.
So, to conclude, I suggest Ninja should have a philosophy to them, as opposed to just a bunch of sneaky guys who kill for money.

I meant ninja or samurai.  not ninja samurai (I don't even know what they are ;-)

How do you edit existing posts to correct them?

Dan.

Thanks for the reply Brian,

I did end up finding the button while on another thread, I wasn't looking then either.

That rule seems fair.  I would put a note on to say I edited it even if no one had replyed.

Cheers,
Dan.