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Author Topic: Another visit to Athas via TRoS  (Read 7011 times)
Deacon Blues

Posts: 46

« on: December 29, 2003, 07:56:34 PM »

Discussion of a Riddle of Steel conversion for the old D&D setting of Dark Sun got me thinking, so I sat down and hammered out one of my own.  Compare and contrast with the other existing conversions.

Character Creation
The character creation priorities have been altered somewhat from the original setup in TRoS, to reflect the frequency of nonhuman races on Athas, the varieties of magic, and the author’s personal dissatisfaction with the Gifts/Flaws rules.

(NOTE: if you want to keep Gifts and Flaws in your game, you could combine Race/Magic into one Priority and include the book's default Gifts/Flaws Priorities)

   Race   Magic   Attributes   Proficiencies   Skills   Status
A   Thri-kreen, half-giant   Yes (any)   47   14   6/6   Landed Nobility
B   Elf, dwarf   None   43   9   6/7   Landless Nobility
C   Half-elf, mul   None   39   6   7/7   High Freeman
D   Human   None   35   4   8/8   Low Freeman
E   Human   None   31   2   9/9   Peasant
F   Human   None   27   0   9   Slave

Races of Athas

Thri-kreen are large, upright mantis, capable of surprising speed and vicious combat tactics.  They are one of the more foreign and exotic races to Athas, and thus are universally distrusted or feared.

Thri-kreen are nimble (AG +1), and their insectoid anatomy makes them resistant to things that would plague a demihuman (HT +1).  However, the behavior of a thri-kreen is almost completely alien to civilized societies (SOC –2), and their vision and hearing are rather poor (PER –1).

A thri-kreen adult’s body is covered with a chitinous exoskeleton that can turn sturdy blows; all thri-kreen have an effective Armor Rating of 2.  However, thri-kreen cannot wear any clothes made for hormal humans, and do not make armor for themselves.

Thri-kreen have access to a special weapon proficiency, Thri-Kreen Fighting, which only their race can buy.  Thri-Kreen Fighting arms each of the mantis’ four hands with short blades or cudgels, weaving them in a looping, unpredictable pattern.

Thri-Kreen Fighting
Offensive Maneuvers
Beat (1)
Bind and Strike (0)
Feint (1)
Multiple Strikes (Varies)
Simultaneous Block/Strike (1)
Spit Acid (2)
Thrust (0)

Defensive Maneuvers
Expulsion (3)
Parry (0)

Cut & Thrust –3
Dagger –5
Doppelhander –5
Greatsword –5
Mass-weapon and Shield –5
Pole-arms –4
Pole-axe –5
Pugilism/Brawling –3
Sword and Shield –4
Wrestling –4

Multiple Strikes: While many fighters can accomplish a double-strike, if properly armed, only a fast thri-kreen can pull off a deadly quadruple strike.  A thri-kreen making a double-attack must spend one extra CP.  A thri kreen making a triple-attack must spend three CP (one for the double-strike plus two for the third strike).  A thri-kreen making a quadruple attack must spend six CP (one for the double-strike, two for the third strike and three for the fourth strike).  Remaining CP dice are divided up among the strikes.  The opponent may dodge as for a double attack: an evasion will avoid all attacks, or he may divide his defense dice up between attacks.

Spit Acid: A thri-kreen practices harnessing his powerful saliva into a single projectile spray.  Effective range is the thri-kreen’s EN in feet.  The spit can be blocked or evaded but not parried.  A hit with the acid numbs the target area.  The acid has a base damage rating of 1 and is not modified by the attacker's ST; consult the Generic Damage table, reducing the damage by the victim’s HT (not TO).  It takes a thri-kreen at least four hours to generate enough saliva for an effective attack.

Half-giants are the results of bizarre magical experiments from ages past, in which humans and giants were crossbred.  Half-giants stand between ten and thirteen feet tall, with massive girth and exceptional strength.

A half-giant is exceptionally strong and durant (+4 ST, +2 EN, +2 HT).  However, they are also notoriously slow-witted (-2 MA, -2 WT, -2 PER).  Their massive size can also be as much of a problem as an advantage; any normal-sized objects, such as clothing or furniture, cost twice as much for a half-giant.

Due to their great size, half-giants add +2 to the reach of all of their weapons.  Any weapon that is two-handed for a normal human can be comfortably wielded in one hand by a half-giant.  However, a half-giant cannot use a weapon of smaller than Medium length.

Half-giants must also eat and drink four times as much as a normal human to survive.

Elves are nomads, wanderers and iconoclastic outsiders.  They maintain tightly knit tribal networks, and are slow to trust any non-elves.  Known for their swift speed and their primitive cunning, they are the gypsies of the Athasian desert.

Elves are quick to act and react (+1 AG, +1 WT), but slow to trust strangers (-1 SOC).  They’re also thin-boned and susceptible (-1 TO).  Elves can see in the dark as well as men can see in daylight; they ignore all darkness penalties to sight.  Elves can also sprint with exceptional speed; double an elf’s Move score.

Dwarves are dependable, ancient creatures, with strong ties to the earth and the environment.  They like to fix themselves to a given task or setting, sticking to it for centuries until they are almost part of the landscape.  Shorter than men, they are stocky and squarely built.

Dwarves are hardier than almost any other race (+1 TO, +1 WP), but less nimble and reactive as a result (-1 AG, -1 WT).  They can press themselves longer than any species: a dwarf subtracts his EN from his fatigue points before determining penalties to dice pools.  Dwarves can see in the dark as well as a man can see in daylight; they suffer no darkness penalties to vision.

Dwarves can take a focus: a task that they adhere to with the devotion of a sacred quest.  It can be relatively mundane: to rebuild a village, to finish a sculpture, to guard a caravan, etc.  A dwarf’s focus is a free 3-point Passion SA.  However, if the dwarf fails in his focus, it turns into a 3-point Curse.  At any time during an adventure, the Seneschal may spend one point from the dwarf’s Curse to force him to reroll a roll he just made.  This special Spiritual Attribute never gives experience to the dwarf who has it.  Multiple failed foci stack their Curses.

A mul, a special cross-breeding between a human and a dwarf, makes for popular and reliable slave labor.  Slightly shorter than men, they generally have a broader build and no hair whatsoever.  Muls are sterile, incapable of breeding.

A mul is stronger than the average man (+1 ST), but his unnatural breeding makes him somewhat of a mystery (-1 SOC).  Thanks to his dwarven heritage, a mul can ignore, but not cancel out, a number of fatigue points equal to his EN.  In other words, a dwarf with an EN of 5 can take five fatigue points and keep going strong; that sixth fatigue point will apply a –1 penalty to his dice pools (6 – 5 = 1).  A mul with an EN of 5 can take five fatigue points without difficulty, but that sixth fatigue point will give him a –6 penalty.

Since muls are frequently slaves or gladiators, a mul of social status E or F gets either another 3 dice of weapon proficiencies or another 8 points to lower skill ratings.

Wealth and Equipment

Status   Yearly Income (Silvers)   Starting Wealth (Silvers)
Slave   0   0
Peasant   1   5
Low Freeman   3   15
High Freeman   10   50
Landless Noble   20   100
Landed Noble   50   250

From gold to silvers   1g = 10s
From coppers to silvers   10c = 1s
From bits to coppers   10b=1c

All city-states in Athas use the Imperial Standard coinage listed in the equipment chapter.  As the above conversion shows, even a noble with vast estates and holdings cannot call on much more than twelve gold coins’ worth of wealth.  The immense poverty of Athas is not to be underestimated.

Because of the extreme rarity of metal on Athas, and the widespread use of other materials as substitutes, adjust all costs in the Riddle of Steel book as follows:

All non-metal items, goods and services cost 10% of their list price.
All metal items are sold at their list price.

So a steel arming sword would cost 15 silver pieces, more than even the richest merchant might make in a year.  A club, on the other hand, costs 3 bits – less than one copper, enough for most warriors to afford.  A “travel pack,” all the equipment needed for surviving the harsh wilderness, would cost 6 coppers.

A character who wishes to buy weapons normally made of metal (swords and blades, for instance) can instead purchase equivalent weapons made of a different material.  Obsidian, mined from Uruk, maintains a razor edge despite its brittleness, and the bones of many gigantic creatures can be carved into wicked knives.  A non-metal weapon costs 1/10th of its list price, but is less reliable than steel or iron.  A fumble when wielding a non-metal weapon will almost always result in the weapon shattering.  Common substitute materials include obsidian or other stones, bone and wood.  

A non-metal weapon will have a +1 either to its ATN (for a sword, that’s a +1 to both its cut and thrust ATN) or to its DTN, at the buyer’s discretion.  Bone weapons tend to have worse ATNs, while obsidian weapons chip under pressure and have higher DTNs.

Armor is a tactical oddity on Athas: its defensive power is almost equally matched by its hindrance, due to the scorching sun and its inflexibility.  Most warriors wear piecemeal armor: an arm-guard and a sturdy greave (upper leg-guard) on the side opposite one’s sword can usually slow an attack.  Piecemeal armor has an AV of 3; metal piecemeal has an AV of 4.  Few merchants bother stocking piecemeal armor: any hunk of bone or bronzewood that roughly covers the appropriate area will do.  In the unlikely event that an armor seller does have such irregular pieces, 1 silver per piece is a fair price.  

Starting characters may have two or three pieces of mismatched non-metal armor at the Seneschal’s discretion; such armor may be found during gameplay with the Scrounging skill.  If a character suffers a wound on a body area covered by non-metal armor, the AV of that piece of armor is degraded by 1.

Haggling is common in the marketplaces of Tyr and other cities.  The base price listed in the main book is presumed to be the result of minimal haggling; there’s no such thing as a “list price” in the bazaar.  A character who attempts more serious haggling may make a Wits (Persuade) roll, while the merchant makes a Willpower (Persuade) roll; default TN is 11.  Whoever gets more successes alters the price by 10% per net success.  This may mean, of course, that the price ends up going higher because you attempted haggling; what this means is that your fancy shenanigans and verbal sparring failed, where the standard “meet me half way” process might have succeeded.

The Environment

Athas is the desert to end all deserts.  The temperatures range from blazing heat during daytime to cloudless, windswept frigid night.  Conditions are always harsh, and adventurers who do not prepare for the environment will die quickly.

The fatigue rules simulate the harshness of dehydration and exhaustion.  Anyone engaged in combat or strenuous activity during daylight hours gains a point of fatigue every EN rounds.  Anyone wearing metal armor and engaged in similar activity gains a point of fatigue every single round.

Consuming water is the most important means of staying alive in the Athasian desert.  A character engaged in regular activity (walking, riding, occasional fights) needs one gallon of water per day.  Less active characters (sitting, resting or sleeping) need only gallon of water per day.  Characters in the shade for the entire day, or characters who move at night, only require half the water for their level of activity.  Characters wearing significant amounts of metal armor (a vest, breastplate or more) require twice as much.

Thri-kreen and half-giants are exceptions to the above rules.  A thri-kreen can go for one week on the amount of water that sustains a human for one day.  Half-giants need four times as much water per day as humans do.

A character who does not receive his daily supply of water gains fatigue points, depending on how little water he received.

Amount of Water   Fatigue Points
Full requirement   None
More than requirement   1
Between and up to of requirement   3
Less than requirement   5

These fatigue points are recovered by resting, like other sources of fatigue, but only if the character is resting on a day when he gets his full water requirement.  For instance, Gracchus didn’t get any water yesterday, so he has 5 fatigue points from dehydration.  He makes it to an oasis today and consumes his fill of water.  That night, when he sleeps for at least four hours, the fatigue from water loss will be erased.

For purposes of encumbrance, a waterskin containing a full gallon of water weighs 9 pounds.  Every waterskin beyond the first moves the character’s encumbrance level up one rank (from unencumbered to mildly encumbered, from mildly encumbered to moderately encumbered, etc).  Full waterskins are not only heavy, but they’re bulky and awkward as well.  Fortunately, water rations only get lighter as the trip progresses.

Characters who are rationing their water, and engaging in diligent search efforts as well, may make an Endurance (Survival) check.  Every success gives them one extra day, after the length of their water supply, that they can survive in the deep desert.  If they’re providing for the entire party, divide the number of successes by the number of people being provided for.  Use this process only for long-term checks.  For short-term emergencies, a Perception (Survival) check will uncover a half-gallon of water for every success.  Each Perception (Survival) check takes four hours.

Magic Use in Athas

There are four kinds of magic-users in Athas: preservers, defilers, templars and psionicists.  Psionics are common enough that many people develop wild talents, as well – untrained, unfocused uses of psionic energy.

A preserver siphons his magic carefully and gradually from the environment, helping to cease the spread of decay through Athas.  They do so for their own reasons: some out of a hope to restore Athas to a livable world, some due to love of the old traditions, and others just to spite the sorceror-kings.

A preserver is a sorceror in the same manner as described in The Riddle of Steel.  He pays for his magic use with months off of his own life, rather than draining it from the world around him.  Preservers gain an extra 2 Spiritual Attribute ranks in any two SAs at character creation.  The fact that they choose the harder path to magic means they are at least principled, if not necessarily “good.”

Defilers are the most common types of magic-users on Athas.  They power their magic by sucking life and vitality out of the environment.  It is thanks to their rapacity that the world is a barren, hostile desert.

A defiler has the advantage of not losing months off of his life when he casts a spell, a sizable advantage indeed.  In return for this, a defiler does not have a DRAW attribute – he cannot borrow temporary mana to power his spells in emergencies.  Additionally, defilers cannot cast spells with group cooperation, as the life-draining energies they manipulate endanger the concentration of others.  Finally, defiling magic is impossible to conceal – plants wither and turn to ash, small creatures grow old within seconds, and humanoids suffer a nauseous feeling in the pits of their stomachs.

Otherwise, defilers cast their spells in the same way as sorcerors in the TRoS rules.

NOTE:  Those with an eye for game design may note that the advantage of being a defiler – not having to age one to ten months every time a spell is cast – far outweighs the disadvantages.  This is deliberate.  If defiling weren’t so simple, Athas wouldn’t look the way it does.

Templars are the agents of the sorceror-kings, their eyes and ears into the world.  They rise and fall in their art only as far as they rise within their master’s favor.  Scorned by the templars of rivals and feared by those within their own domains, many console themselves with slavish devotion to their king.  Some, however, harbor great ambitions of their own.

A templar does not lose months off his life when he casts a spell.  However, he must be of Status B or C (High Freeman or better) in order to have the noble qualifications to prosper in the king’s service.  He must also have at least one Spiritual Attribute at 3 representing his devotion to his liege (this can be a Drive, a Passion or a Faith).  The templar’s liege knows every time he casts a spell, and all of the spell’s particulars, including the intended target (though few sorceror-kings keep track of every spell cast by every templar; it would get tedious).  Finally, a templar cannot have more than one Vagary at Level Three during character creation, and needs his sorceror-king’s permission to raise another Vagary to that level.

Templars have ultimate law-enforcement power within their cities.  Their hierarchy is roughly determined by their social status (templars from the nobility are superior to those who are simply freemen, etc).  All templars can pass summary judgment on slaves, enter the houses of free men without search warrants, requisition soldiers for personal use and accuse any free man of a crime – though only templars of Status B can pass judgment on a free man.  Other powers are assigned at the Seneschal’s discretion.

Also note: templar magic use is the only form of legal magic use.  Casting preserving or defiling magic, or psionics use, is punishable by death in the more civilized city-states.  More barbaric regions inflict torture as a prelude.

Otherwise, templars cast their spells in the same way as sorcerors in the TRoS rules.  

A psionicist does not use “magic” per se, but harnesses the power of his own will.  His powers operate under different limitations and frameworks than those of conventional magicians.  Psionics is a rather common form of energy manipulation, practiced easily and secretly.

Psionicists do not age when they cast spells, as standard sorcerors do.  A psionicist accumulates fatigue when he casts spells, however: he suffers a number of fatigue points equal to the CTN of the spell.  As sorcerors do, he may allocate Sorcery Pool dice to resist fatigue, against the same CTN.  Psionicists may not make use of any special rituals or abilities except meditation to lower the CTN of their spells – gestures, incantations and rituals do not aid them.  Also, a psionicist may not take any points in Spiritual Vagaries.  This means, among other things, that their spells will only last as long as they concentrate on them; see Maintained Spells on page 121.

Wild Talent
The power of psionics is widespread throughout the populace, though most people rarely take the time to develop their gift.  Any character may be a wild talent, using limited psionic ability to aid his other talents.

A wild talent is a single power, written up in the same way as a formalized spell in TRoS (see pp 128-137).  To acquire a wild talent, a character does not need to have Magic at Priority A.  He spends a number of Proficiencies dice equal to the Vagaries required to activate the wild talent.  A character cannot have a wild talent (or number of wild talents) whose CTN total is higher than his MA and WP combined.

For instance, Vargas (MA: 4, WP: 3) has a wild talent - the ability to freeze a target in its tracks using psychokinesis.  He sees the description for the spell "Frozen" in TRoS and decides that, conveniently enough, this is exactly how his power works.  He spends 3 proficiency dice to have this wild talent, since it requires Movement 3 as a vagary.  Since the CTN of this wild talent is 7, and his MA+WP=7, he can have this one wild talent and no others.  If he had an MA of 6 and a WP of 6, he could have "Frozen" (CTN 7) and another wild talent with a CTN of 5, if he wanted.

A wild talent activates his power by taking on fatigue points.  For every one fatigue point he takes on, he gets one die that he can use to activate his power.  He rolls these dice against his CTN, in the standard manner of activating spells.

Skill Sets in Athas

While many skill sets can be carried over from The Riddle of Steel into Dark Sun without issue, a few need to be eliminated or adapted.  The skill sets listed below are available to characters on Athas.

Combat art –1
First aid –1
Body Language +3
Style analysis +2
Etiquette (school or style) –1

Tactics +1
Battle –1
First aid –1

Hunting –1
Tracking +1
Animal guise
Herbalist +1   

Clan Warrior
Hunting –1
First aid –1
Etiquette (clan) –1
Sneak +1
Leadership +1

Craftsman / Farmer
First aid –1
Stewardship +1
Folk lore –1
Animal handling
Survival +1
Farming –2
Teamster –1
Trade skill (weaving, pottery, etc)

Arcane Theory +1
Ritual magic +1
Symbol drawing –1
Herbalist +1
Astronomy +1
Surgery +1
Secret Languages –1

Teamster –1
Streetwise –1
Gambling +1
Trade skill (weaving, pottery, etc)   

Persuasion +1
Diplomacy +1
Read/write –1
Law +1
Sincerity –1

Dancing –1
Intrigue +1
Musical Instrument
Juggling –1
Acrobatics +1
Singing –1   

Panhandling –1
Streetwise –1
Pick pocket +1
Lock picking +1
Climbing +1
Gambling +1
Breaking and Entering

Some common professions, and the skill packets that might represent them, are as follows:

Templar: Mystic + Bureaucrat
Gladiator: Swordsman + Entertainer or Swordsman + Warrior
Merchant: Bureaucrat + Craftsman
Nomad: Ranger + Warrior
Scout: Ranger + Soldier
Spy: Ranger + Thief
Bodyguard: Swordsman + Laborer
Outlaw wizard: Mystic + Ranger

I'm not saying I'm one for violence
But it keeps me hanging on ...

- Tonic
Brian Leybourne

Posts: 1793

« Reply #1 on: December 29, 2003, 08:10:31 PM »

That's pretty nice stuff. I always liked Athas the most out of the old 2nd edition settings. I especially like what you did with preservers/defilers.

The only thing I would change is probably how thri-kreen fight. It strikes me that having four arms is a massive advantage and should open up a plethora of other possible maneuvers such as "block and double strike" et al. Tricky thing to balance of course. We actually discussed multi-armed creatures a while back (mostly because several of us saw that old Ray Harryhousen Sinbad film and were discussing how the six-armed Indian goddess in the film would fight under TROS rules). Might be worth searching for that for some mineable ideas perhaps.

But yeah, nice. I think I'll add a link to this to the forum directory. I'll be keen to see what other ideas you come up with for TROS/Dark Sun.

(edit: Here's the link to the multi-arms discussion. Please note though, that thread is retired and should not be posted to. Post to THIS thread instead.)


Brian Leybourne

RPG Books: Of Beasts and Men, The Flower of Battle, The TROS Companion
Ashren Va'Hale

Posts: 427

« Reply #2 on: December 29, 2003, 09:03:43 PM »

that is one awesome transition/mod. I love it and I have never played darksun but that write up made me want to find out about the setting and run a campaign set there.

Philosophy: Take whatever is not nailed down, for the rest, well thats what movement is for!

Posts: 37

« Reply #3 on: January 02, 2004, 02:08:09 PM »

I am curious to explore 2 fisted (and more) fighting in TROS.  My question is:

How does it work if you are not using traditional "Cut and Thrust" blades?

If I'm using two long swords with Sword and shield prof. of 8, or using an Axe and Pick, with Mass and Shield of 8.

Do I default to Cut and Thrust in either case?  Or do I just keep the 8 prof and divide my dice for a double attack or block and strike?

Lance D. Allen

Posts: 1962

« Reply #4 on: January 02, 2004, 03:34:28 PM »

Remember that the proficiencies in TRoS are designed to mirror historical fighting styles. However, the rules do not say that fantastic styles, such as two-arming sword, a la D&D Rangers, or the double-axe, etc. cannot be done easily enough. For example:

Double Weapons Proficiency: covers double-ended axes, double-swords, and even weighted or bladed staves.
Maneuvers: Double strike, parry, counter, beat, etc.

This is just off the top of my head, obviously, but it could easily be fleshed out, and additional ones made (especially, for multi-limbed characters). I mean.. people have done conversions for Star Wars.. And I really doubt any of the proficiencies are really sufficient for a lightsaber.

Have fun with it.

~Lance Allen
Wolves Den Publishing
Eternally Incipient Publisher of Mage Blade, ReCoil and Rats in the Walls
Ashren Va'Hale

Posts: 427

« Reply #5 on: January 02, 2004, 09:47:49 PM »

on the note of historical accuracy lets also remember practicality, the reason for the second off hand weapon being shorter si that you had to cut around it a lot and two long blades/weapons tend to get in eachothers way and become  more hindurance than help. Frankly, I have only heard of 1 or 2 Masters (used in the historical sense) that actually pulled off two weapons of medium/long length at the same time, and those were more unsubstantiated rumors than historical fact. Basically what I am saying is that for realist/low fantasy TROS, stick to cut and thrust for two weapons with the off hand being smaller. On a side note, I allow buckler with either a weapon and shield proficiency or cut and thrust as the principles seem similar enough.

In the case of darksun, the whole setting seems fantastic enough, especially with the trikeen that I would go with high fantasy but remember that all those extra arms swinging long weapons is gonna create a crowded mess. A neat combo would be one or two primary attacking weapons with a bunch of short parrying or secondary weapons...

anyways, thats just my notsohumble opinion,

Philosophy: Take whatever is not nailed down, for the rest, well thats what movement is for!
Deacon Blues

Posts: 46

« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2004, 05:41:09 PM »

Thinking recently, I decided that I wanted to tinker with the rules for non-metal versus metal weapons.  Since 99% of all starting PCs are going to be using non-metal substitutes for metal weapons (obsidian swords, bone warhammers, etc), and most NPCs are as well, it seems ridiculous for everyone to be using weapons with higher ATNs and DTNs than listed.  That just makes it harder for everyone, and increases the math necessary for regular play.

So, consider this an edit to the above:

Metal weapons - iron, steel, etc - have either a +1 to their ATN (both cut and thrust ATNs if applicable), a +1 to their damage, or a +1 to their DTN.  Non-metal weapons have the statistics as listed in the core rules.

I'm not saying I'm one for violence
But it keeps me hanging on ...

- Tonic

Posts: 53

« Reply #7 on: January 06, 2004, 06:57:16 AM »

First, let me say that I think your adaptation is great, and it inspired nme to pick up some old DS stuff (which I remmeber fondly), and consider using TRoS to run a game in Athas.

Quote from: Deacon Blues

So, consider this an edit to the above:

Metal weapons - iron, steel, etc - have either a +1 to their ATN (both cut and thrust ATNs if applicable), a +1 to their damage, or a +1 to their DTN.  Non-metal weapons have the statistics as listed in the core rules.

That said, I don't quite understand this change to the mods.  I'm new to TRoS, so perhaps my understanding of the rules is faulty, but doesn't adding +1 to the ATN or DTN of metal weapons make them inferior to the now default non-metal weapons?  Maybe Im missing something.

Deacon Blues

Posts: 46

« Reply #8 on: January 06, 2004, 11:44:54 AM »

You're right - that should be a -1.  Stupid non-traditional difficulty systems!

Good catch.

I'm not saying I'm one for violence
But it keeps me hanging on ...

- Tonic
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