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General Forge Forums => Independent Publishing => Topic started by: JustinB on January 15, 2008, 03:08:05 PM

Title: Layout
Post by: JustinB on January 15, 2008, 03:08:05 PM
Damn, layout is expensive. I need layout and I need it pretty soon for the first FN supplement. Can anyone point me to a relatively inexpensive layout person?

Ron, if this should go in the recruiting forums, don't kill me.

Title: Re: Layout
Post by: iago on January 15, 2008, 03:16:06 PM
Congrats on getting to this point with Fae Noir. :)

Layout's cost can vary a lot depending on how intricate or complex the layout work is, and the volume of work to be done.  If there's a lot of reformatting of text to be done or heavy graphical work that can add to it as well.

Could you give us some idea of the scope of this project?  I hesitate to be so crass as to ask what the budget is here, but everyone has a different idea of what "relatively inexpensive" might mean, too...

If you want to shoot the breeze about this off-forum, hit me at evilhat AT gmail DOT com.

Title: Re: Layout
Post by: Vulpinoid on January 15, 2008, 03:57:10 PM
Part A
I've read the downloadable demo version of Fae Noir..and I love it. I'd have bought a copy except that...

Part B
I'm currently an unemployed designer (web, print and industrial design) who is looking for something to work on between temp jobs at the moment.

What do you have so far...what do you need?

As per iago's message above, if you want to talk more privately about this, you can send me a PM or email me at


Title: Re: Layout
Post by: Ron Edwards on January 15, 2008, 05:56:40 PM
Perfectly fine forum for this. Justin, you can always ask me by PM, okay?

As for layout: AAAARRR--ghhhhh!! I hates it, I hates it.

Sorry man. Good luck finding someone. And anyone who can help with any discussion, help, or venting about god-damned, fucking, awful, horrible, mind-destroying, time-sink, have to re-edit, bang head on wall layout, please feel free.

Best, Ron

Title: Re: Layout
Post by: Eero Tuovinen on January 16, 2008, 07:51:43 AM
Well, not to toot my own horn too much, Ron, but with me doing the layouts, it's no head-banging... it's pure joy.

Usually I recommend learning to do the layout yourself, being that it's easy and fun, but, just like the aforevocalized gents, I, too, am available for layout work. I suggest a bidding competition or something to find the cheapest one.

Not that I'd expect to be competitive right now, considering how USA is sliding fast towards a third-world economy, with the value of the dollar quick to follow ;)

Title: Re: Layout
Post by: iago on January 16, 2008, 08:26:26 AM
Well, not to toot my own horn too much, Ron, but with me doing the layouts, it's no head-banging... it's pure joy.

Yeah, I'm in the same boat there.  And given the cost of getting someone else to do layout, the price on professional layout software starts to look really quite reasonable.

I'm still waiting to hear back from Justin here, though.  With up to three folks already watching this thread who could do the work... at least he'll be able to get a reasonable picture of what he can get.

Title: Re: Layout
Post by: JustinB on January 17, 2008, 08:24:35 AM
I would learn to do layout myself, but there are three factors keeping me from it.

1. It would significantly increase the time necessary to get a book done. I'm trying to churn out roughly 2 books per year under my own power and I think it's reasonable to assign each book 6 months of time. I don't think I can do that if I do the layout myself.

2. I hate doing layout. It's boring and that's one of the reasons the time needed to do a book would significantly increase.

3. I apparently don't have the eye for layout. I do design pretty well (I designed the cover of FN) but like, font? I can't tell what people are going to like.

Fred, thanks for the congrats!
The scope of the project is likely to be a book of about 150-200 pages in length, 8.5X11, I'd have to get a word count at home, but anywhere from 100-150 of those pages would be text. I don't think there would be any kind of heavy formatting to do. The budget for the project would hopefully be around $500, but that's why I'm checking rates now.
The old layout guy, who is a friend of mine, did the first FN book basically for free and I'm now having it re-laid-out (sp?) because enough of the books sold that it seems worthwhile to do so. On top of that, he's not interested in laying out the new material anyway.
So, my project budget just got shot in the gut, basically, and I'm seeing how much I can patch it up.

Title: Re: Layout
Post by: iago on January 17, 2008, 08:57:40 AM
Thanks for the info.  I'm gonna drop you a line at an email address I have for you (dartmouth?).  I'll copy the message over into a PM here in case my email info for you is old.

Title: Re: Layout
Post by: Eero Tuovinen on January 17, 2008, 12:42:38 PM
Let us know if you need more options; I'm not quite motivated enough to go stomping with Fred, what with the amount of layout work I have around here anyway. I'll be happy to look into this if the American options don't pan out for some reason, though; roleplaying books certainly should get laid out by somebody.

Also, now that I think of it, Ben Lehman was looking for odd jobs in this area a while ago, so perhaps I'd recommend checking with him as well before myself. Ben can certainly handle this stuff based on prior projects with him, and he also has more use for dollars. Curses to your Federal Reserve, $500 will buy me matches and a smile around here.