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General Forge Forums => Game Development => Topic started by: Locke on June 17, 2011, 08:15:33 PM

Title: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: Locke on June 17, 2011, 08:15:33 PM
Hello All,

My game Age Past has been in development for some time. I have just recently launched a Kickstarter to help me get my book finished. Please take the time to check it out. Also to promote the game I am offering a Beta Soft Launch so everyone can take a look and decide for themselves!

To give you a premise, Age Past is a gameist fantasy RPG that employs an Archetype build system and a new rolling system. Players have about 140 powers to choose from and most powers can be taken 4 times. This means that no two characters are built the same ever. The powers can be chosen based on level and there are no perquisites so ou can take when you want when as long as you meet the level requirement. Each power has a cost balanced based on its usefulness so therefore characters are made balanced to each other. Factions, religion and a cadre of weapon combinations can be used. The game completely places the options and control in the hands of the player.

Included are:
- about 140 powers
- about 150 spells
- about 75 fully developed monsters
- a complete and balanced crafting system
- a DM screen, character sheets, printable maps, and initiative cards

Age Past also employs a new rolling system that helps standardize the result you get. People in play testing really like it as they have a greater chance to get a range of expected results. Also new players seem to be able to take the Age Past faster than Pathfinder or similar d20 systems. The PDF below is free, download it and take a look. It is a full 300 page game not a 25 page shell or supplement and therefore will take a bit more reading to get into. The game was built to be extremely dynamic yet have much less number crunching. The design emphasis is on taking action not adding and determining stacking values. I hope you enjoy!

http://upload.dirdim.com/upload/agep...10607-0011.pdf

Click the link to download the PDF.

Please take the time to check out the website: www.agepast.com
and to take a listen to GMS Magazine's Podcast: http://www.gmsmagazine.com/podcasts/...cast-episode-2
and to read an interview with me: http://www.gmsmagazine.com/articles/age-past-interview

And once again please think about supporting this project on Kickstarter: http://kck.st/jNe0rJ

thanks and all comments are welcome.
Jeff Mechlinski
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: Locke on June 20, 2011, 12:06:10 AM
I just added a new and much better video on Kickstarter explaining and previewing the game.  I hope you take the time to check it out and pass the word on!

http://kck.st/jNe0rJ

thanks!
Jeff
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: Locke on June 20, 2011, 11:36:28 PM
We dropped the Price of the PDF copy to $10 from $20 and added the Image for the Limited edition T-shirt!!! check it out!!

http://kck.st/jNe0rJ

thanks,
Jeff
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: Mike Sugarbaker on June 21, 2011, 01:21:39 AM
So, I'm reading about Elegant10 on your web site, and if I have this right:


This all leaves aside what it is that we're rolling against (the page mentions opposed rolls; are all rolls opposed rolls?). But anyway, I haven't done all the probability math here, but at your example pool size of 6 dice, why wouldn't you always decline to roll all but one of your dice? That gives you a 10% chance of crit-fail, which I guess is a bit high, but it means your next lowest result will always be a 6, on up to a possible 15. I should think that's beating most of the likely results if you roll all 6 dice. Am I wrong?
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: Mike Sugarbaker on June 21, 2011, 01:30:28 AM
Oh - also your DL link doesn't seem to work...
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: Ben Lehman on June 21, 2011, 01:03:05 PM
Actually the statistically best option is to leave 2d10 in your pool. This gives the highest mean return and drops critfails to 1-in-100.

yrs--
--Ben
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: Mike Sugarbaker on June 21, 2011, 03:08:56 PM
My bad, it's actually >=50%. So rolling even one 1 does it on two dice.

Does that come out to... 2%? Or back to 10%? gah.
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: lumpley on June 21, 2011, 03:22:36 PM
Worse! The odds of rolling at least one 1 on 2d10 is 19%. Two dice is critfailville.

-Vincent
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: Mike Sugarbaker on June 21, 2011, 06:49:44 PM
Wow. OK, so, anyway, as a way to take more risk but get more upside, this is effective, but maybe not with a curve that's straightforward. But that might be fine. Your other stated goal for the mechanic, though, is to have it scale as the character grows in effectiveness without just piling on the dice. How do you see that working? And finally, where are those difficulties coming from? They're the linchpin of all this, after all.
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: Locke on June 22, 2011, 12:34:20 AM
As far as I can tell the link on kickstarter should work.  I just used it.

The website has some old data regarding the rolling system.  It has been modified slightly.

- Extra d10's grant a +2 bonus instead of +1
- natural 1's have no ill effect.

  Here's the new text:
Age Past employs a new type of rolling system called Elegant10.  Elegant10 allows the player to choose the level of reward and risk with every roll.  The player has total control of how to use their pool on every roll and in response to what is happening during play.  In Age Past characters have a pool for each skill but the players can modify how the roll occurs.

Here's how Elegant10 works...

Lets say a player has a pool of 6 dice.  If she rolls all the dice and the results are 3, 5, 8, 9, 9 and 10 she takes the highest score for her total.  In this case it would be a 10.

So therefore the more dice a player rolls the better chance she has at getting a maximum score...

...but sometimes a player is especially lucky.  If she rolls again and gets a 3, 5, 8, 9, 10 and 10 her total score would be a 10, but since a second 10 is rolled a +2 is added so the total score is a 12.  A +2 is added for each additional 10 rolled after the first...

...but rolling a lot of dice isn't especially interesting or anything much the player has control over.

So she can hold dice, or choose not to roll them.  Each held dice grants a +1.  Therefore if our player holds 3 dice and rolls 3 she will gain a +3 to the highest value rolled.  If she rolls a 3, 7, and 8 while holding 3 dice the total score will be an 11.  But if she rolls a 10 as her highest die then the total score would be 13.  Extra 10's always add +2.

If she rolled a 7, 10 and 10 while holding 3 dice the final result is a 15.

What's great about holding dice is that the more dice that are held the higher the potential of score can be but the risk is higher as well.  The fewer dice that are rolled the greater the chance of rolling low as well.  So the player can mitigate risk by choosing to roll more of the pool.  Extra +2 from bonus d10's happen just enough to mix things up.

With each roll there is a chance of critically succeeding or fumbling.  If the target score is doubled the PC has critically succeeded at their task, but if the result is half or less that what was needed a fumble will occur.  During PC interactions, including combat, if the PC doubles her opponent's score then a critical hit has occurred.

By rolling lots of dice and always choosing the highest the player can expect the score they will get and thus can control the skill level their character has.  Also, the total scores rolled generally fall between 6 and 18 and since the pools are calculated before rolling the entire system is both satisfying and efficient for game play.  The final value is added very quickly so you spend more time playing and less time number crunching.
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: Locke on June 22, 2011, 12:38:26 AM
http://upload.dirdim.com/upload/agepast/pdf125/Age_Past_v125_small.20110607-0011.pdf

Here's the new link sorry about the broken one.  It can also be found in my sig.  Enjoy and I appreciate feedback!

Jeff
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: Mike Sugarbaker on June 22, 2011, 11:54:52 PM
+2 for doubles changes the game a bit, but, well, I suck at statistics but I can code a little, so I did some Monte Carlo simulations. For basically any number of dice in the pool, the bell curve of results is centered on 10, with a big divot at 11, then the rest of the bell curve picking up at normal with 12 and flattening out. It almost never reaches 16 and never goes higher. It never really goes lower than 3 unless you're rolling a small number of dice (say, 3).

So yeah, generally, it is always a better deal to not roll dice and take a guaranteed +1 instead to whatever your best result happens to be. Given that... I know you place some value on having an innovative die mechanic, but what does innovation really count for if it doesn't make a difference at the table? It's just forcing someone to learn something for no real reason.

You could get essentially the same mechanical effect as an Elegant10 roll by rolling, say, 2d6 to make it a little bit bell-curvy (or if you're married to d10s, roll 2 and subtract the high one from the low one), then adding your stat.

There's no real reason to value innovation in the die mechanic in particular. Innovation can happen in lots of places in a game's design, and IMO most of them have bigger upside.
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: Locke on June 23, 2011, 12:14:33 AM
Quote from: Mike Sugarbaker on June 22, 2011, 11:54:52 PM
+2 for doubles changes the game a bit, but, well, I suck at statistics but I can code a little, so I did some Monte Carlo simulations. For basically any number of dice in the pool, the bell curve of results is centered on 10, with a big divot at 11, then the rest of the bell curve picking up at normal with 12 and flattening out. It almost never reaches 16 and never goes higher. It never really goes lower than 3 unless you're rolling a small number of dice (say, 3).

So yeah, generally, it is always a better deal to not roll dice and take a guaranteed +1 instead to whatever your best result happens to be. Given that... I know you place some value on having an innovative die mechanic, but what does innovation really count for if it doesn't make a difference at the table? It's just forcing someone to learn something for no real reason.

You could get essentially the same mechanical effect as an Elegant10 roll by rolling, say, 2d6 to make it a little bit bell-curvy (or if you're married to d10s, roll 2 and subtract the high one from the low one), then adding your stat.

There's no real reason to value innovation in the die mechanic in particular. Innovation can happen in lots of places in a game's design, and IMO most of them have bigger upside.

Yes I agree that the system could be called elegant6 or elegant8.  Here's what I like about the rolling system:
1. its quick at add and scales well at high levels
2. the players can choose how they roll and while this isn't as innovative players do like the choice I've found in play testing
3. the system leverages potential.  in D20 a +8 is just potential it doesn't mean the PC is good.  If the PC only ever rolls natural 1's then the + doesn't matter as the character isn't performing and therefore sucks.  There is an old saying in football "you are only as good as your record".  With the bell curve you get a BELL CURVE hence potential is non-existent and the PC just performs.  Yes the "1's" thing isn't he best example but I player Pathfinder a few weeks ago and rolled an average score of about 6 or 7 over 20 rolls the character didn't perform and it wasn't fun.
4. the system has just enough inherent instability to increase the randomness to make it fun and not too predictable.

I agree that rolling is rolling, but PC's are suppose to perform and do what they are good at with some regularity.  The risk plays in it as well since most rolls are opposed, if a monster gets a high score the player has to choose between trying to defend and avoid a critical hit by rolling too low.

I believe that the dice mechanic integrates into the game and the global design effect is very innovative.  But technically I guess you are right rolling is rolling is rolling...  you get scores and check them against a task.  If you only do this its just a die mechanic, but Age Past takes it further.
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: Locke on July 01, 2011, 09:09:48 AM
30 Days left on the Kickstarter.  Tell your friends and take the time to think about backing the game on Kickstarter!

http://kck.st/jNe0rJ

thanks!

Jeff
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: John Michael Crovis on July 01, 2011, 08:09:08 PM
My opinion from skimming your game system.... I like the dice mechanic and the morality mechanic. Good stuff. I wish the morality mechanic would appear sooner in the book. I don't like point based character creation, and I think the majority of the setting information should be pushed to the back of the book and leave only a brief summary at the beginning. The intro touts this as a great book for beginners... but it isn't. I'm not saying its a bad RPG, but from a beginners stand-point, this is complicated stuff! The art, so far, ranges from being fantastic to so-so...

Would I play it? From what I can tell, this is just another flavor a D&D. I've pretty much settled on Pathfinder/3.5 as my favorite version of D&D, so I am not too keen on trying another version right now. Sorry.
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: Locke on July 05, 2011, 11:08:39 AM
Quote from: John Michael Crovis on July 01, 2011, 08:09:08 PM
My opinion from skimming your game system.... I like the dice mechanic and the morality mechanic. Good stuff. I wish the morality mechanic would appear sooner in the book. I don't like point based character creation, and I think the majority of the setting information should be pushed to the back of the book and leave only a brief summary at the beginning. The intro touts this as a great book for beginners... but it isn't. I'm not saying its a bad RPG, but from a beginners stand-point, this is complicated stuff! The art, so far, ranges from being fantastic to so-so...

Would I play it? From what I can tell, this is just another flavor a D&D. I've pretty much settled on Pathfinder/3.5 as my favorite version of D&D, so I am not too keen on trying another version right now. Sorry.

Thanks John for your glance at Age Past.  I will disagree with you about the ease.  The game is easier to play than DnD 3.5 or Pathfinder and I know this from new gamers who have learned both system roughly at the same time.  Pathfinder is extremely complex and Age Past is complex but Age Past is much easier to get into because its made up of low level simple systems.  Essentially Age Past is complex because of the number of options available to the player.  Strip this out and the core system is simple. Yes there is two-weapon fighting and crafting and xx and yy and zz.  But the players choose to use what they want so they only have to understand what they need to.  Once the character is built, leveling is very easy and since the build process is simple the player can track what they have done.

I must agree though that if you don't like archetypes build systems then this game isn't for you.  I have been able to take what DnD 3.5 needed 10+ books for and go it into one book.  This was only possible to do with an archetype based build system or using a mini-class package system (like making class packages that you choose maybe 3 to 5 and they drive your character like a typical 3.5 character).
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: valador on July 06, 2011, 11:22:13 AM
Quote from: John Michael Crovis on July 01, 2011, 08:09:08 PM
My opinion from skimming your game system.... I like the dice mechanic and the morality mechanic. Good stuff. I wish the morality mechanic would appear sooner in the book. I don't like point based character creation, and I think the majority of the setting information should be pushed to the back of the book and leave only a brief summary at the beginning. The intro touts this as a great book for beginners... but it isn't. I'm not saying its a bad RPG, but from a beginners stand-point, this is complicated stuff! The art, so far, ranges from being fantastic to so-so...

Would I play it? From what I can tell, this is just another flavor a D&D. I've pretty much settled on Pathfinder/3.5 as my favorite version of D&D, so I am not too keen on trying another version right now. Sorry.

I think this game system is about as easy as you can get, and still have it be a fairly fleshed out system. It's certainly not harder then 3.5. Granted it is a slightly different way of thinking when you in character development and for people that don't like point based systems then your right to look elsewhere. I for one enjoy the ability to choose any skill, or power to tailor my character to whatever my background story is.

lol and don't knock the art you know how expensive it is do fill a book with art like that?... I do.  If this was a funded project they ya I'd be with you, but its not as far as I can tell its one guy, one artist, and a handful of play testers that are relying on personal talent and whatever spare cash they can muster.

Anyway I'll get off my soapbox now, but I will say I enjoyed reading through the book and can't wait to try it out with my friends.
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: Locke on July 16, 2011, 12:20:52 PM
Hey All!!

There are 15 days left to still back Age Past on Kickstarter!!

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/1625564009/age-past-main-role-playing-game-rulebook

Also still the beta copy of the rules is up.  Try it out for yourself!  We are adding new art to the book and content to the website everyday!  This is gonna be a great game system.

thanks!
Jeff
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: Locke on July 25, 2011, 01:37:41 PM
Only six days left on Kickstarter!! 

http://kck.st/jNe0rJ

Think about backing Age Past.  We have some great steampunk stuff in development coming soon!

thanks!
Jeff
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: Thriff on July 27, 2011, 01:14:54 AM
Hey Locke,

Some general feedback and detailed feedback on your Morality Mechanic.

Every piece of art is professional and immersive--especially the racial pictures. I like the selection of races you've provided and appreciate that they've (to some degree) deviated from tolkien-esque troll/goblin/dwarf/elf/human... Granted, you seem to be creating this game for a player that is seeking a distinct Game-master/player dynamic within a tome-sized numerically/list-intensive point-based system. And that's fine! That market exists and many enjoy such games. My personal preference is that I do not.

My general impression is that the organization of the game is confusing. Setting and System are introduced at odd intervals and in odd quantities. It feels like I have to learn about the entire world before I can properly create a character.

Morality Mechanic:

I like your approach to morality. The Core morality idea is excellent! It is simple and inclusive, I cannot think of any character concept that would not align with one of the three Core moralities--that's very impressive.

I struggle to promote the Drive concept. You've done an excellent job of choosing three routes to represent three aspects of a Core, but I feel as though Drive is ultimately unnecessary. The listed Drives are not mutually exclusive and may detract from players role-playing a dynamic and innovative character.

I consider Demeanor to be very important for defining a character. Demeanor provides a foundation for the character's interaction with their environment, without limiting the how of their actions. Demeanor suggests a character's actions, whereas Drive requires a pre-determined mode of operation. Also, why have you chosen the 9 Demeanors that you have? I can't imagine it being easy or accurate to determine 9 modes of an individual's interaction with their environment. Solution: make it open-ended, encourage players to create and state a single adjective to represent their character's Demeanor.

Core and Demeanor are natural and guiding while Drive feels contrived and invasive. I encourage you to leave Drive as a suggestive footnote somewhere and focus on Core and Demeanor. Forgive me if Drive plays a significant role somewhere else in your system, but if its sole purpose is defining the character then I see no reason for it to be pivotal to your morality mechanic.

The game is too numerical and list-based for my taste, but I can see your passion for this project. I hope you fare well with your kickstarter campaign!

T
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: Locke on July 29, 2011, 05:19:46 PM
Quote from: Thriff on July 27, 2011, 01:14:54 AM
Hey Locke,

Some general feedback and detailed feedback on your Morality Mechanic.

Every piece of art is professional and immersive--especially the racial pictures. I like the selection of races you've provided and appreciate that they've (to some degree) deviated from tolkien-esque troll/goblin/dwarf/elf/human... Granted, you seem to be creating this game for a player that is seeking a distinct Game-master/player dynamic within a tome-sized numerically/list-intensive point-based system. And that's fine! That market exists and many enjoy such games. My personal preference is that I do not.

My general impression is that the organization of the game is confusing. Setting and System are introduced at odd intervals and in odd quantities. It feels like I have to learn about the entire world before I can properly create a character.

Morality Mechanic:

I like your approach to morality. The Core morality idea is excellent! It is simple and inclusive, I cannot think of any character concept that would not align with one of the three Core moralities--that's very impressive.

I struggle to promote the Drive concept. You've done an excellent job of choosing three routes to represent three aspects of a Core, but I feel as though Drive is ultimately unnecessary. The listed Drives are not mutually exclusive and may detract from players role-playing a dynamic and innovative character.

I consider Demeanor to be very important for defining a character. Demeanor provides a foundation for the character's interaction with their environment, without limiting the how of their actions. Demeanor suggests a character's actions, whereas Drive requires a pre-determined mode of operation. Also, why have you chosen the 9 Demeanors that you have? I can't imagine it being easy or accurate to determine 9 modes of an individual's interaction with their environment. Solution: make it open-ended, encourage players to create and state a single adjective to represent their character's Demeanor.

Core and Demeanor are natural and guiding while Drive feels contrived and invasive. I encourage you to leave Drive as a suggestive footnote somewhere and focus on Core and Demeanor. Forgive me if Drive plays a significant role somewhere else in your system, but if its sole purpose is defining the character then I see no reason for it to be pivotal to your morality mechanic.

The game is too numerical and list-based for my taste, but I can see your passion for this project. I hope you fare well with your kickstarter campaign!

T

Thanks for the note I appreciate that you took the time to write.  Its funny when I started the project I wanted it to be a mechanical system and the players and GM could make their world.  But people asked for the world, they wanted to see what the races were like and what the world looked like.  So I then started developing a world.  The world primarily exists to support the mechanical rule set as a frame and I generally feel, that the world could become more generic, like a pathfinder or DnD setting, if the GM and players want.  So I would not focus too much on having to learn the world.  The point of the game is for people to make the exact type of character they want and for the GM to run a good game.  The players shouldn't need to know a lot about the world.

I would gander that the World of Darkness games, Exalted, Eclipse Phase (SERIOUSLY) and Shadowrun need far more background info than Age Past and people don't seem to have an issue following and learning the fluff and background in those settings.

I have gotten several criticisms regarding the order that the information is displayed in the game.  Unfortunately without a better understanding of what the problem is I can't fix it, other then sorta arbitrarily move things around.  I have no problem making the document better if I know how.  Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated.  I like hearing how you felt wile looking at the book so that I have a better psychological understanding of what people are thinking.

Regarding morality, its meant to be more flavor based than anything.  I agree you probably don't need it, but it gives the GM some teeth if he chooses to use it.

I understand the game looks crunchy.  It plays very smooth since the system is very easy to identify the pools needed and mods are kept to a minimum.  I do agree that being a beastmaster, shifter, two weapon fighter is more complex than just being a guy with a sword.  I also believe that it is up to the players to understand what they are doing and read the rules, it only take a few extra minutes to understand these more difficult classes.

Thanks for the good thoughts!!  We are really close and more great art is to come!

Jeff Mechlinski
Title: Re: [Age Past] Up on Kickstarter LIVE!
Post by: John Michael Crovis on July 31, 2011, 10:39:18 PM
Quote from: valador on July 06, 2011, 11:22:13 AM
Quote from: John Michael Crovis on July 01, 2011, 08:09:08 PM
My opinion from skimming your game system.... I like the dice mechanic and the morality mechanic. Good stuff. I wish the morality mechanic would appear sooner in the book. I don't like point based character creation, and I think the majority of the setting information should be pushed to the back of the book and leave only a brief summary at the beginning. The intro touts this as a great book for beginners... but it isn't. I'm not saying its a bad RPG, but from a beginners stand-point, this is complicated stuff! The art, so far, ranges from being fantastic to so-so...

Would I play it? From what I can tell, this is just another flavor a D&D. I've pretty much settled on Pathfinder/3.5 as my favorite version of D&D, so I am not too keen on trying another version right now. Sorry.

I think this game system is about as easy as you can get, and still have it be a fairly fleshed out system. It's certainly not harder then 3.5. Granted it is a slightly different way of thinking when you in character development and for people that don't like point based systems then your right to look elsewhere. I for one enjoy the ability to choose any skill, or power to tailor my character to whatever my background story is.

lol and don't knock the art you know how expensive it is do fill a book with art like that?... I do.  If this was a funded project they ya I'd be with you, but its not as far as I can tell its one guy, one artist, and a handful of play testers that are relying on personal talent and whatever spare cash they can muster.

Anyway I'll get off my soapbox now, but I will say I enjoyed reading through the book and can't wait to try it out with my friends.

Well, I don't think Pathfinder or D&D 3.5 is really for beginners, either. I prefer much simpler games to introduce RPGs with, eventually graduating to more options and choices. This game, like the before mentioned Pathfinder and D&D 3.5, is front loaded with options and choices. Regarding the art work, I'm comparing it with other glossy color printed RPGs on shelves today, which I assume is what this game aspires to be eventually. At this level of professionalism, the game has some really great artwork.... and some artwork that isn't so great. If the author intends this to be just a PDF download, then I agree that the art is damn good for a PDF download... but it should be in Black & White, so it can be printed from a home computer. If the game was going to be a free-for-all download, I would see any original artwork at all as a big bonus.

I hope this clarifies where I'm coming from... I'm not trying to knock the guy for what he is doing - I really think he's doing a pretty spiffy job. But I also think that I would do him a disservice by not giving him honest feedback, pointing out the good and bad.