[Agon] - Fun & Death on the Island of Skyros
Darcy Burgess:
Hi James,
Hey, I wasn't clear enough, was I?
That bit in my opening post that went "It seems to me that the pertinent subsystems are too intricate to form a suitable playground for functional competition." is basically saying "Hey, we should be able to steal each others kills, but the system is really tough to navigate in and around those parts."
Then next bit, "However, I'd love for someone to point out to me what we weren't doing." Is asking you to play tour guide.
Since you're now a self-proclaimed kill-stealing expert, care to share?
Cheers,
Darcy
Mel White:
Quote from: Darcy Burgess on January 07, 2008, 05:03:45 PM
So, we discovered that combat in Agon essentially boils down to "who gets the last hit out of six", not "who can maneuver for the best hit". How do the players compete over that -- it seems to me that the pertinent subsystems are too intricate to form a suitable playground for functional competition. However, I'd love for someone to point out to me what we weren't doing.
In reference to 'kill-stealing', I've seen that this is exactly what excites the guys I play with (I normally GM for them). The players recognize that the last wound will earn the most Glory, so they use positioning and weapon choice to try and out-think their comrades. Most battles start cooperatively, as the players assess the threat and do things like whittling away the opponent's armor. But later in the fight, players want to score that last hit and so they position comrades out of optimal weapon range or at least 'charge' oaths for any cooperation. Or they 'disguise' their intent by positioning the bad guys towards their own optimal range--which just happens to be outside of other Heroes' ranges. It reminds me a little of 'Diplomacy'--it's not a matter of 'if' there will be a backstab, only 'when'.
The Wound progression sequence creates this dynamic because each hit is more or less equal to any other--it's hard to get 3 or more victories in a single hit. And it levels the playing field for the Heroes, since a 1 victory hit against an opponent with 1,2,3 wound boxes filled in is as good as a 4 hit. One other thing--those 'open-ended' attacks can be awesome at just the right time! One Monster-Slayer Hero open ended a d8 spear and then rolled 8, 8, 1--something like 26 attack versus a 4 defense: six victories!
Mel
Darcy Burgess:
Ah! Ok... so what you're saying is that at your table, the first 3-4 successful hits in combat are used to size up the opponent, and try and assess their weak spot? Then, it gets all competitive?
Mel White:
Quote from: Darcy Burgess on January 09, 2008, 07:16:02 AM
Ah! Ok... so what you're saying is that at your table, the first 3-4 successful hits in combat are used to size up the opponent, and try and assess their weak spot? Then, it gets all competitive?
Pretty much...although really the first attacks are used to break down the bad guys armor, or maybe eliminate minions. We haven't been great at 'assessing ' opponents prior to or during a fight in order to gain an advantage. I want to emphasize that possibility next time we play.
The trend towards more competitive play has evolved over time. I'd credit it really to one player who 'got it'--and would do nothing cooperative unless Glory (in a competition) or an Oath were involved. That mind-set spread. So, things in combat remain cooperative when cooperation is in players' best interests, but then becomes more competitive as a particular encounter runs on and the heroes are more confident of victory. There have been some harsh lessons! A particularly heroic Hero charged an enemy, asking for positioning help to close the distance quickly. The player had never played Agon before; I think he was expecting a more cooperative approach to the battle. But once engaged, his comrades hung back (using javelins and out-of-optimal range spears). While all the Heroes whittled away the opponent's armor, the first Hero suffered all the attacks from the bad guy. He wound up with some Glory, but a lot of wounds himself, and some Fate incurred to avoid injuries, too.
Mel
Darcy Burgess:
Hi Mel,
We're talking about the same thing. I didn't mean "assessing" in the sense of gaining or eliminating advantages. Rather, I meant it in a sense of "what's a good weapon to use on this guy", or "well, I think that the Antag has busted out all the special powers, so now seems a good time to go at it".
Thanks,
Darcy
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