Creating a Community
Reithan:
Quote from: Caldis on January 17, 2008, 05:02:19 PM
A big question I'd ask is how are the player related to the community? Do they have family members, friends, lovers, occuptations, responsibilities, or are your characters mysterious strangers who've wandered into town? If they are strangers I think it becomes much harder to get a feeling of community. What you really want is something in the town that the players are invested in and that's harder to get if this isnt their town just a town.
The characters have had a few fleeting responsibilities, one of the characters that just died secured an official position with the NPCs. A couple of the characters have 1-2 friends in the NPCs. Past that the players seem to shy away from really getting too involved with the NPCs, like they're afraid of what might happen if they let their guard down and become friendly with them.
They took this so far as to actually live outside the town for a while. They've recently moved back in, though.
Quote from: Filip Luszczyk on January 17, 2008, 05:53:58 PM
How prolonged is a typical instance of social interaction between the PCs and your NPCs?
Realtime-wise? Or In-game?
Realtime varies, but in-game-wise the PCs seem to only be interested in interacting with the NPCs on an as-necessary basis. They come in, find out what they have to find out, deal with who they need to and generally retreat.
Quote from: Filip Luszczyk on January 17, 2008, 05:53:58 PM
There is this shared information thing going on, but does it happens often that the PCs interact with more than one NPC at the same time? If so, are your NPCs generally acting as a group, or do they have conflicted opinions or the like?
It varies. Sometimes they'll interact with only 1 NPC, usually it's 2-3 NPCs at a time, though not always the same NPC groups. Once in a while, they'll interact with a bigger group. Both dynamics have been represented in the NPCs. I've had groups of NPCs at odds with each other, helping each other, friendly with each other, helping each other out of necessity, etc.
Quote from: Filip Luszczyk on January 17, 2008, 05:53:58 PM
Does it often happen that an NPC casually approaches one or more of the PCs in order to talk about another NPC? Not necessarily in terms of allies/enemies and personal goals, but rather to talk about him or her as a person? I mean, even stuff like "Man, I'm so tired. I hardly slept last night. Bob was snoring so loud, and the walls are so thin..." or "Yuck, I so hate cooked gelatinous cube. I have no idea how Bob can munch it all the time!" or whatever?
They have once or twice, but the PC's don't seem interested in giving the NPCs a chance for that.
Quote from: Filip Luszczyk on January 17, 2008, 05:53:58 PM
Finally, an important thing - you say it feels like disconnected points, but what is the opinions of your players on this matter? Also, are they interested, as a group, in there being a sense of community in the game in the first place and ready to work actively to build it?
They feel like their characters are there, the NPCs are there, and the 2 directly effect each other, and that there is 'something going on' there...but they don't feel very 'invested in the game' - though, they also don't see this as a huge issue, because they RP with each other and find that to be fairly fun.
I dunno, I guess it's just me trying to 'kick it up a notch'.
Caldis:
I'm seeing a big disconnect between your stated goal and any actions on the part of the players to realizing that goal. In big model terms it looks like you are worried about certain aspects of color related to setting while they aren't all that interested and are looking to deal with situation and ignoring that color.
You might just be stuck in a typical rut where they feel it's them against the world and the town is a part of the world not a part of them. I wonder about character creation, how did they make their characters (I guess knowing what system you are using would help here)? Did you involve them in creating the town at all, connecting them to NPC's, fitting their backgrounds into the town? Do the characters have real lives or are they "adventurers"? Are they all originally from this town or are they wanderers who stopped by to take jobs in the town?
If your characters didnt start off connected to the town then it may just be a matter of time. They may slowly develop connections with things that are going on but at this point they may also be expecting that once they solve the problems going on here they will move on to bigger and better things, a new town with it's own people and problems, so why bother getting invested here.
One thing I noticed that may be causing some problems is the talk of superiors. This may just be my opinion and their may be ways around it but by having others there that are responsible for the situation then the players dont take that responsibility on themselves. If some NPC is in charge of defending the town and all he does is give the pc's orders on how they can help out then that mission is all they worry about. If on the other hand the pc's are in charge of defending the town and have to make decisions on how to do it then they will become invested in the town and it's survival.
Reithan:
Quote from: Caldis on January 18, 2008, 07:11:36 AM
I'm seeing a big disconnect between your stated goal and any actions on the part of the players to realizing that goal. In big model terms it looks like you are worried about certain aspects of color related to setting while they aren't all that interested and are looking to deal with situation and ignoring that color.
I did consider this, and asked the players, and they do seem to be interested in this aspect of the setting/color...however, they seem to feel it's something that's my responsibility.
Quote from: Caldis on January 18, 2008, 07:11:36 AM
You might just be stuck in a typical rut where they feel it's them against the world and the town is a part of the world not a part of them. I wonder about character creation, how did they make their characters (I guess knowing what system you are using would help here)? Did you involve them in creating the town at all, connecting them to NPC's, fitting their backgrounds into the town? Do the characters have real lives or are they "adventurers"? Are they all originally from this town or are they wanderers who stopped by to take jobs in the town?
I do feel, at times, like I'm in that rut.
The system in question is White-Wolf's World of Darkness: Mage: the Awakening.
They made their character mostly by the book, but I re-order the steps a little as a houserule, to place more emphasis on developing characters' backstories.
Now that you mention it, I hadn't thought of it, but most of the character's background were created outside of the town, and then their characters 'relocated' there.
I've been trying to push the characters to develop 'real-lives' as the players seem to enjoy that, and it's something I'd like to see with the game, but it seems like anytime something bad or dangerous happens in-game, the characters suddenly sever all ties and draw back into their shell.
Quote from: Caldis on January 18, 2008, 07:11:36 AM
If your characters didnt start off connected to the town then it may just be a matter of time. They may slowly develop connections with things that are going on but at this point they may also be expecting that once they solve the problems going on here they will move on to bigger and better things, a new town with it's own people and problems, so why bother getting invested here.
There has been no stated or implied (so far) goal or possibility of moving on to a new town. As of right now, the characters are there to stay, and everyone's on-board with that.
Quote from: Caldis on January 18, 2008, 07:11:36 AM
One thing I noticed that may be causing some problems is the talk of superiors. This may just be my opinion and their may be ways around it but by having others there that are responsible for the situation then the players dont take that responsibility on themselves. If some NPC is in charge of defending the town and all he does is give the pc's orders on how they can help out then that mission is all they worry about. If on the other hand the pc's are in charge of defending the town and have to make decisions on how to do it then they will become invested in the town and it's survival.
Actually, the current situation is somewhat of the reverse. The characters are the ones responsibly for their area, and generally try to drag their superiors into the action. I've allowed it once or twice when the plot actually warranted it, but as whole, the characters are usually left to their own devices.
Reithan:
Does anyone have any ideas on this? :S
Ron Edwards:
Lots! And so do others, I'm sure. But let the posting come at its own pace. It's a great topic and very thought-provoking. Because of that, replies are going to be a lot slower, rather than faster.
I mean, that's better, right? To get a long-considered reply than a bunch of shallow attention? Usually, when one or two people engage with a thread, the rest of us relax and just read, hopping in only with something especially relevant. I suspect that time is coming soon for this one. So let it happen, and please remember that posting "hey! my thread! post to it!" kind of stuff tends to turn off that productive reflection and response, rather than drawing it.
Best, Ron
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