[Nerdinburgh '08] Spione
GreatWolf:
Quote
So I'm not disagreeing with Ralph or Jesse at all, but calling attention to a feature of the game which assigns responsibility for a principal's actions to the person who owns him or her, but doesn't restrict that person's actions to that principal, nor proscribes others' contributions to the principal's actions.
Just to piggy-back on this.
When I explain to someone what it means to play a principal, I explain that you're not playing the principal, like a PC. Rather, you're the advocate for that character. It's your job to be a voice for him at the table and make sure that someone is looking out for his interests.
Hopefully that's a helpful way of putting it.
Ron Edwards:
Hi Seth,
During Flashpoints, yes. During Maneuvers, no one is necessarily doing any such thing. I figure you knew that, but also thought it'd be good to get it textually explicit here.
Best, Ron
GreatWolf:
Well, it's been a while since I've played, so I'm glad that you pointed it out.
jburneko:
Ron,
I don't know if this is comment on personal growth as a "game" reader or your personal growth as an author but for what it's worth, I wanted to say that I got all of everything you said above from Spione's text alone. I consider Spione to be a very a scary thing because it has rules and structure but no....something...limits isn't quite the right word. The way I keep saying it to people is that has absolutely no "social safety nets."
Principles may or may not be protagonists. Flashpoints may or may not resolve conflicts. Disclosure may or may not happen. It's like looking at something that's moving real fast. You can tell it has shape and mass but that's about it.
Jesse
Valamir:
Quote from: jburneko on January 23, 2008, 06:55:31 PM
Quote from: Valamir on January 23, 2008, 02:22:30 PM
Once I made that connection...that the entirely arbitrary resolution system that I as a player have no ability to manipulate in a meaningful way...puts me as the player in essentially the exact same position as the Principle...I totally fell for it.
Ralph, I think you might be overstating a bit. To be fair what I'm about to say is from reading only and not play experience but it seems to me that "meaningful" is the wrong word. You CAN manipulate the system in a meaningful way, what you can't do is manipulate the system in a favorable way.
The way is see it, if you're the Principle your ideal situation would be to have a double stacked card at the far right end of the run because then you could narrate yourself out of whatever jam all the previous negative narrations at narrated you into -- TA DA! However, there is no way to willfully move your own cards to the right. So you're left with a choice -- leave your cards where they are and hope that everyone else moves their cards to the left of yours OR move your cards to the left in the hopes of protecting whatever you can with an early narration before the hammer falls.
Jesse
I don't think you're really disagreeing with me Jesse, but maybe I wasn't clear enough.
Let's say its the climactic scene of the whole sordid tale. This is the scene which decides who lives, who dies, whether the principle's family gets out alive, all of it. My card is the King.
Here's the deal...no Kings. What's my ability as the player to impact this flashpoint?...pretty much nothing.
Or alternatively...hey look, all four Kings...I totally own this scene...unless other people also have a lot of their cards and their cards play before mine...then its pretty much up to them how much impact I'll be left with.
What's my ability as a player to adjust the probability of the system to increase the likely hood of me getting more Kings in a flashpoint than you get Queens or he gets Jacks?...zero.
What's my ability as a player to influence whether my cards play first so I have the option to cover before you do?...zero
What's my ability as a player to influence which combination of suits come out so that even if I do go early there's cards in play I can choose to cover or not?...zero.
Yes, after the cards are dealt I may discover that I have HUGE impact on the scene...or I may discover that I have NO impact on the scene (or anywhere in between). But there is nothing I can do before the cards are dealt to increase my chances to have impact, nothing I do or say in the Manuevers is going to allow me to influence how much impact I'll have in the flashpoint. Its entirely in the hands of fate...try and pray. As a player, I'm out in the Cold, just like the principle.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page