[Dark Ages Vampire] Assessing Creative Agenda
contracycle:
Frank, there are still serious contradictions in this argument. In the parent thread, you among others made suggestions that, for example, this group may be engaged in 'sim by habit', and that this is not serving or is contradictory to their goals. But in this thread, citing the example of your Reign game, you have said that any given technique can be used in support of any given agenda anyway.
Caldis makes a (reasonably) fair point about intent but we already know from Reithans account that he has openly and explicitly discussed CA with his group; thus, their intent is established. Now why is it that this intent on the part of Reithan's group does not overcome any notional difficulties arising from the techniques in the same way your Reign game can?
This makes no sense, it is self-contradictory. Furthermore, if given techniques are neither here nor there in terms of CA, we should have been able to kick straight into discussions of techniques that supported the specific goal of "creating a community" without any diversion into CA or suggestions that Reithan is failing to understand his own group's priorities and dynamics.
Frank Tarcikowski:
This is not an argument. This is an explanation of how to assess a CA, using my game as an example. In the other thread, I make suggestions about Reithan's game, knowing fully well that I may or may not be right. My suggestions in the other thread, as I have been repeating all over, have NOTHING (N-O-T-H-I-N-G) to do with CA. They have to do with a disconnect between applied Techniques and stated goals of fictional content (Exploration).,
See, this is exactly what I predicted would happen if we start talking about the two things all at once. Now it happened. It's a total mess and nothing constructive whatsoever is coming of it. It's a waste of time and nerve.
Frank Tarcikowski:
Also, FUCK IT, Gareth:
Quote
any given technique can be used in support of any given agenda anyway
That’s ridiculous. I never said that and that should be obvious to you, being an intelligent person and all. Whatever you’re at, understanding me is not it. We cannot have a reasonable conversation this way. Please, either get serious about this or get out. Thanks.
Caldis:
Quote from: contracycle on January 26, 2008, 04:31:18 AM
Caldis makes a (reasonably) fair point about intent but we already know from Reithans account that he has openly and explicitly discussed CA with his group; thus, their intent is established. Now why is it that this intent on the part of Reithan's group does not overcome any notional difficulties arising from the techniques in the same way your Reign game can?
Because I dont think that intent is established. It may have been discussed but look at this post. His group is flitting from stated CA to CA, they dont really know what they want. He even says it's hard to tell what they are aiming for anymore. I can make a guess based on actions in the game so far but until we look more closely at his game and his group I dont feel comfortable that I can blurt out advice with much hope of it being relevant or received. In the parent thread Paul Czege handed out some great advice but look at his last post. He's stated right there that it's about more than just finding the right techniques, it's about changing the way you think about gming and getting your players to trust your actions. That sounds a lot to me like finding a common agenda.
contracycle:
Because I dont think that intent is established. It may have been discussed but look at this post. His group is flitting from stated CA to CA, they dont really know what they want. [/quote]
Which is quite possible in a given group; a moment of play may indeed so wander, it is the operation of the reward cycle overall, not in any given instance, that determines the CA.
Hence I think this is massively over-pathologised. The query raised was about specific techniques, not a "my game is totally screwed" problem. This seems to be a bad habit of such analysis; not every problem is an existential crisis.
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