Name the phenomenon: Inter-player SIS incohesion
lachek:
I've encountered an odd problem in some games I've played in recently that keeps taking on a very specific shape in my head. My issue is that this shape is not similar enough to any phenomenon described in The Big Model (or whatever) that I can find the terminology and prior insight to approach it.
What I'm picturing is a game where there is no Shared Imaginary Space hovering over the table, informing the players (GM inclusive) what is going on. Instead, everyone has their own image of the world where the only high-contrast, full-colour object is their own character, and everything and everybody else are nothing but ethereal, ghostly presences. In each individual's world, what the ghosts do is largely inconsequential - my character does not react notably to any events zie didn't cause hirself, and in extreme cases, perhaps not even to environmental occurrences (as described by the GM).
The phenomenon is characterized by the players being constantly engaged in dyadic (strictly two-way) communication with the GM, wherein they poke and prod at the environment without interacting or collaborating with the other players, In or Out of character. The main problem with such play - other than that it hogs GM time and slows the game down for everyone - is that a cohesive, coherent SIS is never created. From an objective standpoint, merging all the individual "ghost worlds", the story is disjointed and absurd. For me personally, I find it very difficult to connect with characters in such a story - my own and others' - as they seem 2-dimensional and crude due to their inability to react to external influences.
Illustrative examples.
Quote
Situation: An starship's engine is about to explode and the emergency alarm sounds. The crew of the spaceship all gather in the engine room trying to solve the problem.
Joe: "I'm going to try to figure out what's going on with the engine." (rolls Starship Mechanic)
GM: (notes a failed roll) "You think maybe the exhaust valve is blocked."
Adam: "I'm going to try to double-check his work. Just in case." (rolls Starship Mechanic)
GM: (notes a successful roll) "Seems like there's foreign substances in the core is causing a chain reaction. Those illirium crystals you picked up on Bane IV were probably impure."
Joe: "Okay, I'm going to try to clear the exhaust valve."
GM: "Upon further inspection, there doesn't seem to be anything wrong with the exhaust valve after all."
Adam: "I'll try to manually override the core to expedite the shutdown process." (rolls Propulsion System Engineering)
GM: "Okay, you think maybe it'll shut down in time now."
Joe: "Obviously I was mistaken about the exhaust valve so I will go back and check again." (rolls Starship Mechanic)
And so on. From an outside perspective, there are two perfectly silent and methodical individuals, part of the same crew, approaching the same problem from two different angles with no communication about their findings whatsoever. No "Hey Joe, what seems to be the problem?" or "Adam, what's that humming noise?" - they descend on a situation and circle around it completely unaware of each other.
I do not believe this can be chalked up to "bad roleplay", whatever that nebulous concept is. Even with some conversational colour thrown into the mix, the same events can occur. Instead, it seems the issue is that Joe and Adam, for whatever reasons, are disbelieving the existence of the other's character.
A more illustrative example:
Quote
Situation: The group has entered a room by force and realizes the rightful occupant has trained a gun on Joe.
Joe: "I say, 'If you shoot me, the rest of my companions will know where the shot came from and they'll come after you.'"
GM: "He seems to hesitate, just a little, before he responds. 'I'll be long gone before then.'"
Adam: "I light a fire over in the corner of the room. 'Oh! Fire! Big fire, go boom!'"
<nobody reacts - the negotiations continues for a little while>
Adam: "I clap my hands and do a little dance over by the fire."
<again, nobody reacts and the standoff is resolved>
GM: "The lieutenant walks over to his liquor cabinet to pour himself some whiskey."
Adam: "But... I lit the liquor cabinet on fire."
GM: "The lieutenant goes, 'HOLY CRAP! FIRE!'"
This one might be a little easier to explain - nobody wanted to react to the presence of a fire, because it'd have to mean dealing with it, which would've been anticlimactic since the standoff was far more dramatic. Still, I think there's a possibility that this is the same phenomenon - to the others at the table, Adam was a ghost, lighting ghostly fires that nobody wanted to react to or even acknowledge.
Can anyone explain what this is that I'm looking at, and how it fits in with existing theory? What are some methods designers or GMs have used to encourage a cohesive, coherent SIS? Are there any designs that tend to solve (or create) this problem, or is it purely a group dynamic issue likely to occur with any system?
Ron Edwards:
Hiya,
Well, as far as how it fits with existing theory, I think you already did the job! You described a way for the SIS to fail, and what was going on socially (i.e. the "outer box" surrounding the SIS) that made it happen that way. I have definitely seen versions of this myself - it is clearly a fundamental failure of the medium, and just as one cannot write upon the empty air, a group can't play without the communication that you see breaking apart. It's only role-playing insofar as a cacophony of noodling solipsistic players of instruments could be called music, and I'm not PoMo enough to claim such things. To me, what you're describing ain't role-playing no matter how many dice may be rolled nor how detailed those character sheets may be.
I don't know if it needs a name or not, but I encourage you to come up with one ... incohesion is what you already sort of suggested in your title, which is fine, but I can just see all the confusions with incoherence or whatever. Besides, I'm partial to cute-ass names that resonate with people who've experienced the same phenomenon, so if you come up with one of those I'm all for it.
Now ... you began by talking about picturing this happening. Then you talk about something you're looking at. Are you describing phenomena you've actually observed or participated in? This isn't merely a thought-experiment, is it?
Oh wait, I looked again - you definitely encountered it. What games were being played? Who were the players, roughly? I am not asking these questions for form's sake; I think the answers will help us to understand why in the world human beings would persist in such a ... I dunno what to call it ... bogus activity.
Best, Ron
lachek:
The reason I'm using words like picture and looking at is because an analogy to the problem, in the form of individual ghost worlds, is very visually clear to me. What I'm having some problems with is moving it into a semantic space where I can analyze and hopefully deal with it. I'm encouraged to do this because I'm currently diddling with a design intended to emphasize immersion - in the character identification interpretation of the term - and if the ghost world phenomenon would appear in such a game session it'd turn into a complete dud, guaranteed.
I suspect that this is not a problem that either exists or doesn't in a session - it exists to varying degrees in all games. It is also highly subjective - it could be that I detect the problem because I have a problem perceiving the SIS, and assume that others around the table suffer similarly. The only objective indication I have that this is occurring at all outside my own head is persistent dyadic GM <--> player communication, rather than more organic group communication.
I believe that if the group is engaged in group communication, the ghost worlds each player perceives is more colourful and alive. At a certain point, it doesn't even really matter if one person's ghost world varies from someone else's, because the play is objectively coherent enough that the players can engage in the luxury of subjective interpretation of game events (living their own personal fantasy) without compromising with the SIS.
Without getting into a discussion about what roleplaying is and isn't, I have to say that I believe a session can have lots of potential even without a fully functional SIS. I have most frequently observed this breakdown in games with conflict-resolution mechanics, because we tend to play such stories faster towards their conclusion. Thus, there is far less time to get to know the characters than in your typical never-ending fantasy campaign. But focused conflict-driven play tend to create more loaded stories. However, especially in the case of a really defunct SIS, each player may find their story only by approaching it as "Story After", an approach which by definition block out those features of the story that confuse the premise.
Just to note that while I recognize that this is dysfunctional play, I don't feel it's necessarily worthless or damaging. I'm even reluctant to call it a "bogus activity".
To answer your specific questions, the last game which I noticed this in was Dust Devils, with a homebrewed post-apocalyptic setting hack. Think Mad Max meets the Fallout video game to an 80s metal soundtrack. The characters are:
a gun-toting leather-clad badass out to revenge his family,a split-personality, pacifist collector of ancient artifacts,the feral kid with the mullet from Road Warrior,an aged "devil clown",and my character, a human-hating eco-warrior from a SoCal hippie tribe.As for the players, since I am relatively new to this group I don't believe I know them well enough to describe them in a way that's conducive to analyzing any problems with group dynamic. Suffice to say there are no obvious "problem players", unless I am one and don't know it.
My immediate thought as to why the breakdown may be occurring in this game is simply that all our characters are so, um, "special". Each of us could easily be the subject of our own short story - if you put us all together and put the pace on FF, it might be difficult for each player to make sense of his own story if those other strange characters also play protagonist roles. That is my immediate theory, anyway - if anyone has other theories I'd love to hear them.
In particular, I'd love to hear of any Techniques or other approaches to encouraging a strong, persistent SIS, either on the system and scenario level.
lachek:
In fact, this is the setting:
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=25311.0
And, I should add, outside of the obvious problem which I have described, I'm having a lot of fun with the game. I'm not trying to "fix" this game, I am trying to figure out what causes the problem so I can attempt to avoid it in my own games or designs.
Marshall Burns:
Quote from: lachek on January 28, 2008, 11:14:33 AM
Situation: The group has entered a room by force and realizes the rightful occupant has trained a gun on Joe.
Joe: "I say, 'If you shoot me, the rest of my companions will know where the shot came from and they'll come after you.'"
GM: "He seems to hesitate, just a little, before he responds. 'I'll be long gone before then.'"
Adam: "I light a fire over in the corner of the room. 'Oh! Fire! Big fire, go boom!'"
<nobody reacts - the negotiations continues for a little while>
Adam: "I clap my hands and do a little dance over by the fire."
<again, nobody reacts and the standoff is resolved>
GM: "The lieutenant walks over to his liquor cabinet to pour himself some whiskey."
Adam: "But... I lit the liquor cabinet on fire."
GM: "The lieutenant goes, 'HOLY CRAP! FIRE!'"
With different narration, and a different object being set afire, that exact thing happened to me once.
I play a lot of improvised music with other people who are also improvising, and this same phenomenon definitely can occur. Someone told me there was a word for it (in music), but I can't remember what it is. It has something to do with lack of accord, not listening, and everything going off in a different direction. It wasn't "divergence," but it had a similar definition. Arg. This is going to haunt me.
-Marshall
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