[Dreamation 2008] Troublesome Munchausen
Michael S. Miller:
On Friday night at Dreamation, I facilitated a game of The Extraordinary Adventures of Baron Munchausen. Let me build upon what I wrote in my LiveJournal:
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Friday midnight was The Extraordinary Adventures of Baron Munchausen. If I have a regret all weekend, this was it. On the surface, it was *grand.* People had been asking me about it all through the weekend, checking to see how many people I could take. The description is so enticing, we had a number of folks I don't normally see in the RPG room come out to give it a try. All told, there were 13 players, plus myself. Thus, I explained the rules of the game very briefly, and--since I had brought 2 copies--split things up into 2 tables and joined the smaller of the tables myself (mistake #1). Things started off very well with my tale of how I came to learn that apes and men were cousins (and then actually married one). In retrospect, perhaps this veiled implication of bestiality opened to floodgates to what came later. Alexander Newman told us of the little dog he met on the moon that spoke French. Jeff Lower told us how he became th king of Mbolo-Mbeleland by accident, and a player whose name I never learned wowed us all with a story of how he lost a week of his life building his own prision under the sea and was subsequently rescued by sea monkeys. Then things got highly uncomfortable, and I didn't do a damned thing about it (mistake #2). There is MUCH matter there to be discussed, so I will move on with my con write-up and come back to the Munchausen game in an AP thread somewhere.
There has already been some good discussion about it on Jeff Lower's LJ
Here's more detail on the "things got uncomfortable" comment. The fifth player at the table was asked "So tell me, Baron, of how it was you killed the King of Norway." I had never met this player before or since, so I can't comment on him personally. He launched into his tale about how he had been part of a group of bandits that were pillaging, murdering, and raping their way through a town in Germany. All four of us who had already gone were pretty well floored at this development. Each of us spent a coin trying to suggest that he change the tone of his tale. We'd suggest things like "But surely, Baron, even though your companions expected such acts of depravity, you would never stoop so low, and actually deceived them about what you were doing." He'd take the coin and respond with "You are right, of course, I decieved them about how many rapes and murders I committed. Since I did so much more than they did, I didn't want them to feel bad about not keeping up with me."
I've also been told that the other table had wild deviations from Munchausean norms, lots of swearing, and the like. I welcome any comments from folks that were at that table.
A few things I'd have to do differently next time:
ONE: If I have too many people, divide into groups by familiarity with the game or genre. Folks who have played before, or seen the film, or read the stories or the game, can get started right away. I'll sit with the other group and give better guidance as to what is expected and what is not. I've to to remember that the Law of Large Numbers implies that the more players you have, the less chance they're all on the same page.
TWO: When the game jumps the tracks, you can't use game rules to stop it. You need to break character and address it person-to-person. Six years I've been frequenting this site and I still can't seem to put that one into practice...
THREE (possibly): I put Munchausen on the event list because I used to run it a lot before I got heavily into running the Indie Games Explosions, and it's just a heck of a lot of fun. Perhaps if I'm running something primarily for my own enjoyment (and thus am invested in not just sitting on the sidelines and facilitating, I don't offer it as a scheduled event, but as an invitation-only pick-up game. This would likely increase the enjoyment of those that are invited, but doesn't really expose the game to anyone new. But, since it's hard to come by, increasing its exposure is a bit cruel anyway.
I welcome any other comments or questions.
Eero Tuovinen:
I agree in principle that out-of-game intervention is required to set players on the same track as regards social convention. In case of Münchausen, though, I'd be sorely attracted to challenging a villainous wretch like that into a duel for confessing to such attrocity! This inclination, I am sure, speaks more of the strong subject matter than the advisability of trying anything like that with the rules of the game, such as they are.
I've had several similar experience through the years - playing a lot of games like Dust Devils and My Life with Master at conventions is sure to bump into inappropriate weirdness if any of the players are prone to introducing such. I would categorize these situations into three boxes, perhaps:
Sometimes people are just unfamiliar with a genre and go into inappropriate content by mistake. I try my hardest not to let anybody be left into a position where they need supreme genre knowledge to play well, but sometimes it happens regardless. To make this work requires willingness on the part of the clueless person to put matters on the table and take suggestions from others; if the game session can be used as a tool of learning regarding the genre, then play will also go well.Sometimes geek social fallacies take a man and twist him into a monster. Specifically, it seems surprisingly common, especially for an established group, that a person should get into a game with the express purpose of proving that it doesn't work. This can usually be worked with, like the above, by talking about it explicitly instead of going into the status game with the person in question. A variant of this is "top dog" behavior where a person exercises power to establish their identity as the keenest, coolest guy in the game; this is pretty usual with Finnish teenagers and immature student population who like to prove how tough they are by the level of uncaring attrocity they bring into the game.Sometimes I end up playing with people who have strident, monomaniac convictions that touch upon the matter of play. We all have beliefs and preferences, but I generally find that most people, most of the time, are well able to verbalize and compromise on their ideas, and get excited with the ideas of others as well; not so with this type of people. Such a player might, as a matter of gratification, try to intently overrun the game with his own agenda. Such a player might just as well get supremely uncomfortable when another player takes the game into opposition with his personal beliefs.Now, the former kind of player I can deal with, but the latter is simply embarrassing for everybody involved. I should know, my brother is fragile in exactly this manner, prone to priorizing his own ideas over others and likely to twist his uncomfortableness in the game into a strange ball of anger that bursts forth suddenly or causes him to engage in some stress rituals. It is quite possible to game with a person who, from your viewpoint, holds strange and fragile ideas that should not be touched; you just need to know what works with him and what doesn't. Assuming that you have common ground at all, play is possible.
As you can see above - putting the first two cases aside - I tend to diagnose the most difficult kinds of play interruption as genuine social difficulties: roleplaying is a form of communication that requires not only a shared cultural basis, but also a willingness to respect and listen to the other person. A frame of comfort is required, one wherein all players can try to affect the direction of play without risking mockery or ostracism. When a player insists on being the top dog of shock value at the table, whatever the game (I know folks who are like this; perhaps this was the case with your game as well?), or breaks down in pieces when something relatively ordinary is brought into play by others, then that common frame of activity disappears.
Of course, while I have the above list to reference when considering similar situations I've witnessed, pinpointing a given case into one particular box is hellishly difficult, especially when I don't usually end up prodding any given person's play-style for an extended amount of time if they cause this kind of trouble. In the cases where I have played long-term with a difficult player who breaks genre convention like this I've usually come to categorize them in the third category: they are folks who simply are so fragile socially that they can't play in a flexible and socially skilled manner.
Hmm... I'm tempted to write about similar experiences of my own, but it seems I'm not really comfortable with publicizing other people's horridly inappropriate behaviours in-game. I feel that the reason for the behavior is in each case very personal to the player in question and figuring out what, exactly, is going on is not going to happen without dragging out all kinds of personal contextual data on the person at hand. Speaking of why somebody acts like that at the gaming table is necessarily a personal matter.
Queen_of_Kryos:
When Jeff told me about this one when I caught up to him on Saturday, I asked him if there were any ladies at the table, to which he responded with an emphatic "No." I thought this was interesting, and inasmuch as this may not be a gender issue (in fact, it probably isn't), it's enough to make me wonder if the individual in question would have brought up rape (especially more than once) if there had been mixed company.
Harlequin:
I was over at the second table and can speak to it directly. I echo Michael... this game was my only solid regret of the whole con. We had two ladies and there was no actual rape (what a thing to say about Munchausen!), so maybe there's something in that, but the underlying phenomenon was if anything much worse at our table. Subtler, but pervasive... elements of juvenilia - not ridiculous or outrageous, just dumb and anachronistic - and a clear failure to really catch the point of the game.
Swearing (in character at the table and in-character during storytold dialogue), especially modern swearing, was somehow the thing that most specifically got under my skin, but I think that's because it was concrete and identifiable, where the real problem was an underlying malaise without any clear handles.
This last resulted in us lacking even the "but surely you were deceiving your companions, Baron" feedback loop... because there was just nothing you could haul out and say no, this element by itself is totally out of line. Rather, the line crept all over the place, starting poor and creeping worse. The creep is where, I think, the lack of feedback mechanisms in the game really showed. There was no good way, until all the tales were done or your own turn came up, to say "that really sucked, those themes just weren't appropriate in my opinion" to the participants. Shy of, and again I echo Michael, stopping play and actually saying that, which in retrospect I possibly should have done but felt I lacked the authority to do so unilaterally.
Alas, though she is beautifully penned, this poor game is (IMO) overdue for a shakedown from the theory crowd to make its reward system actually serve the role of reinforcing the style of play upon which the game depends. Be interesting to see someone take that on as a project... keep the basic play-structure the same, and keep the mechanics in the same very simple vein, but pen a game flow and rules logic which works robustly, even with less-than-optimal players.
- Eric
Ignotus:
Eric,
I was also at the second table, and while there was some breaking of kayfabe (for which I am in part responsible), I had a great time, and thought that most of the stories were clever and funny. I'm sorry if what my friends or I were doing was irritating you; I genuinely didn't pick up on that vibe at the table. I confess I wasn't really thinking in terms of theme when I was telling a story or posing challenges. I own a copy, squirreled away somewhere, and my local group has expressed interest in trying the game again, so I was wondering if you could expand on what the "point" of the game is, and what makes a thematically appropriate tale? What would you have told us, if you'd decided to speak up at the table?
-Sam
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