Spione Dry Run For OrcCon
jburneko:
Will,
Given Ron's example Flashpoint above your final narration about the Munich Olympics was not actually a rules violation at all. In fact Emily's story ended with a more correct application of the rules than Manny's did.
Ron,
Like Will before reading Spione my knowledge of the German agencies was Zero. And even though I've read the book I still can't keep them straight. Reading and playing Spione certainly has renewed my interest in Le Carre. WAY back when you first posted Zero to the Bone I got curious and I bought a whole bunch of his novels and started reading them in publication order. I got through the first three which includes the second one which is really just a straight up murder mystery and The Spy Who Came In From The Cold. I've also seen the film adaptation of that title. I want to read more.
I think when I read Spione the big shocker for me was the diagram that's simply labeled, "This is not the situation:.... This is:" I honestly did not know that Berlin was wholly contained in East Germany and suddenly the whole situation got a lot more frightening and the premise to Escape From New York suddenly seemed a lot less absurd. I honestly don't know if I could live like that.
From our game itself I think I was most fascinated the idea that so much horribleness could happen totally on the Western side. We had Western Agencies spying on Western Organizations, granted for "enemy" penetration. But only Emily's story actually involved uncovering that penetration. In fact, it seemed to me that the story was wholly unconcerned with the importance or relevance of the spy's activities and simply concerned that the agencies involved had more guys in their column than the other agency had in their column. It raises the question of whether that was a function of our ignorance of what exactly would be relevant out of a British NATO office in 1950 or a product of the bureaucratic paranoia.
Jesse
GreatWolf:
Quote from: jburneko on February 05, 2008, 12:12:16 PM
I think when I read Spione the big shocker for me was the diagram that's simply labeled, "This is not the situation:.... This is:" I honestly did not know that Berlin was wholly contained in East Germany and suddenly the whole situation got a lot more frightening and the premise to Escape From New York suddenly seemed a lot less absurd. I honestly don't know if I could live like that.
I had a similar experience when Ron was first introducing me to Spione. For me, it was the fact that the Wall went all the way around West Berlin. I mean, duh, this makes perfect sense, but I always thought of the Wall as just a dividing line between halves of a city. Cold War Berlin became, for me, the kind of place that proves that reality is stranger than fiction.
jburneko:
Hello Again,
I realized I didn't address Ron's question about the Trespasses. I think of the Trespasses as Spoine's social trust fall and openly refer to them as such when explaining the game to others. The first thing I observed about them was the reaction at the table when I swept the remaining non-selected Trespasses off the table and went to destroy them "unread." More than one person audibly went, "Oooooooooo."
I think that really help to set the mood of, "there will be things that enter play that will go unanswered, unaddressed or unexplained." It immediately diffused the notion that everything that enters play has to be explained and tied up in a neat little ball like the solution to a tightly plotted mystery novel. It made the ambiguities of just what the hell was really going on, Okay.
As for Disclosure it definitely had a certain element of "shock value" Especially since I knew it was real. I'm not 100% sure what kind of in play effect it had. Denys had only hinted at the Trespass once before disclosing. And as I said our game was flying by at lightening pace. I can say that Manny's story ended up revolving more and more around the one Supporting Cast member that ended up being the victim of the Trespass.
Laura I know was kind of miffed about the whole "don't talk about the Trespasses" thing because she said, "See, now I WANT to know the story behind THAT." In hindsight I might have been a little too Fight Clubish about the Trespasses. "The first rule of Spione is, don't talk about Trespasses. The second rule of Spione is, don't *TALK* about Trespasses." I think next time I'll amend that with "while the game is going on." Obviously what ever element of our personal lives we want to discuss with each other is up to us but the game shouldn't get side tracked into a personal discussion after Disclosure.
I admit that when I first read Spione I was kind of surprised to discover that Disclosure was a) optional and b) done by Principle player fiat because I feared it would make the game drag on and on forever since I felt that the Fate Deck was the most reliable way to remove Supporting Cast members. I was wrong about that and was ultimately glad that Emily never Disclosed for the simple reason of seeing both how the Fate Deck takes out Supporting Cast members and how removing Supporting Cast members through Flashpoints can be a great focusing element.
Also, the Fate Deck is much much kinder. Principles, if you want your Supporting Cast members to have any CHANCE of having happy endings, Disclose, Disclose, Disclose.
Jesse
GreatWolf:
Quote from: jburneko on February 11, 2008, 11:29:59 AM
Also, the Fate Deck is much much kinder. Principles, if you want your Supporting Cast members to have any CHANCE of having happy endings, Disclose, Disclose, Disclose.
Which is, IMHO, a genius part of the game.
Ron Edwards:
I appreciate the kind comments from you both, and I'm glad you like that feature.
Does anyone remember the "dangerous and wrong" comments made about the Trespass notion (then called something else) in Zero at the Bone?
It's also interesting that I'd considered permitting Supporting Cast to reach positive outcomes and "escape" the story via Flashpoints, and decided against it after some playtesting. Jesse's right - if you don't disclose, those characters are doomed. Which is often a perfectly reasonable choice on a person's part, especially since in Spione, like Sorcerer, one's choices have a tendency toward feeling obvious, even inevitable, in the moment.
Best, Ron
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