New Publishing Frontiers
David Artman:
A few redirects and rebuttals:
Quote from: pells on February 10, 2008, 01:03:25 PM
Hard cover is just a false pretext.
Not true:
1) Some folks want only hardbacks, proving that they have a "real" value above and beyond immediacy, else no one would buy them (ever) once the digest or paperback was available.
2) Authors could release digest or paperback first, but almost never do; and if they did so, they could not easily reduce the MSRP later, (i.e. the "discount" for non-immediacy). They don't (though book SELLERS do, to move stock).
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But, if you subscribe, you get to see the writing as it goes. You wouldn't need to wait.
Much better example, and has actually been done by Tad Williams (among others, I'm sure).
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Personalization - ... could also be easily implemented for GLASS.
Yes, and I said as much; but recall the balancing act: If I am working on, say, a cyberpunk supplement for GLASS, and someone comes along on my forums to ask about how to do a variety of cyberwear abilities, then I have to either (a) give shit advice, saving my best for the supplement; (b) give away a chunk of my supplement, by providing what I consider the best solution; or (c) tell the person that I won't help or ignore them, while (presumably) happily helping folks setup their Neo-Victorian or Noir games because I don't have a supplement for such genres in the works. I don't like any of those options, but only B builds customer loyalty, so I bite the bullet. (OK, MAYBE I could get away with something like, "I'll have just the supplement you need out in a few months!" and hope for an understanding customer... but risk making him or her think I am doing C to them.)
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Accessibility ... And, please, stop thinking about re downloading the pdf !!! 1483online is accessible. From everywhere : you just need a browser and an internet access.
At the risk of pedantry... how, exactly, do you think a web page--PDF, HTML, whatever--appears on your computer screen, if it's not stored locally already?
Yep, download. New machine, no local copy? Download. Bandwidth? Not free. Hence my idea for the Game Cabinet service, which (yes) would re-download to whatever new device you are using. Yep, just like every page of Avalanche does, when first- or re-accessed.
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This could be the same for GLASS, David. You put everything a player needs on the web. No more need for pdf, nor for paper.
Well, don't tell anyone, but that's exactly how my database tool will work, in the end. You won't need the full book rules any more than you need the (free) shotGLASS rules reference: the database's forms and macros enforce the rules, some Help and the tables describe the rules. My "product" then is online-only... and the revenue channel is banner advertising and knock-on sales. Hell, I am even thinking of allowing GMs to download a specific version of shot GLASS that is built up using only the text for the rule Options and Toggles that they have in use, effectively making "personalized" shotGLASS for each game typoe that is registered on the DB engine. On-demand, on-the-fly. For free.
My money, in the end, will be paid to me for exciting prose, clear and varied examples, and evocative illustrations and photos. Otherwise, someone can just (re)download shotGLASS and start writing up Abilities. Which cost me money (eventually) in bandwidth, which is hopefully (eventually) made up by ad views and click-throughs.
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Long story short, the RPG Book is just about as leveraged and digital-aged as we can make it. Thus, it is with follow-up or expansion services that we can really "beat pirating" in the long run, to the extent that we HAVE to beat it, that is. Or to the extent that we even CAN.
I mean, ask yourselves a very serious question: when's the last time you played ANY game in which EVERY player had all the rule books for that game? Me? Never. Can't recall a single time. But number of time's I've used someone else's copy or briefly loaned my copy (say, to make a character): a bajillion. So, in effect, the RPG Book is already suffering severely from a variation on "piracy": lending of something which one doesn't need all the time. In that way, it's a lot like a single-seat software license being used by two or more folks at a company, during different shifts.
What can we do about THAT, as "copying" is a relatively minor issue for those of us selling physical artifacts that aren't trivially copied (Books)? (You PDF-only folks are screwed....)
David
pells:
Ryan : my mistake, sorry (which obviously shows I don't play the game) !! That said, I think it still can be considered as highly "portable" : there is no CD needed, nor "heavy machine configuration" (à la WoW).
David : about the first part of your previous post, I think we generally agree with each other. So, let's take a look at the second part. Note that, on purpose, I'll take a "controversial" tone on the subject, but please, take no offense there.
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Long story short, the RPG Book is just about as leveraged and digital-aged as we can make it.
I'm not sure I'm getting what you're talking about. Who is "we" ? You and me ? The indie scene ? The big players ?
Now, let me ask you a couple of questions on the subject :
- When you read the current article, do you feel you missed something ? Like you're not ready for that new age ? What comes to your mind is it "Ha !!! I've missed that !!" or "Check. Taken into account". For me, this kind of article really, but really reinforce my belief in Avalanche and the way I'm adressing this new frontier.
- Do you feel that we're doing enough on the subject ? I'll talk more about this later ...
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Thus, it is with follow-up or expansion services that we can really "beat pirating" in the long run, to the extent that we HAVE to beat it, that is. Or to the extent that we even CAN.
Is GLASS service based instead of product based because you wanted to beat out piracy ?? Hell no for me !!! By incident, a service based does that, but that never had been my main concern, nor motivation. It is because that is what I wanted to design in the first place (well, maybe because I used to work for mobile phone company, a truly oriented service based model and now my brain is used to think in this way). I mean, selling out a service is very different trade than selling products.
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So, in effect, the RPG Book is already suffering severely from a variation on "piracy": lending of something which one doesn't need all the time.
Well, yes, but this is not a new issue ... The same thing applies to boardgames (I do a lot of those) : you'll need one copy for six, eight players, no ? That's one of the reason I would suggest (and will do with Avalanche) to provide a tool that is useful to the DM and the players ; all of them. You can even think of shared paiement of the subscription. Why would all the cost be bear by the DM ?
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What can we do about THAT, as "copying" is a relatively minor issue for those of us selling physical artifacts that aren't trivially copied (Books)? (You PDF-only folks are screwed....)
Yes, and this means a BIG change in the way we design what we are going to sell ...
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Well, don't tell anyone, but that's exactly how my database tool will work, in the end.
David, why are we doing this, hiding the service based strategy ? I mean, I can find a lot of things about GLASS, its design, but how come I can't find (or so I think) information about the services you're designing ? Honestly, the same thing applies to Avalanche. I'm ready to give away the structure, the design, a lot of texts and illustrations, but good luck with finding out exactly what are my plans about the services. Maybe some pieces in various threads, but not much. So, why do we whisper each time we're talking about this issue ? What are we afraid of ?
Now, take a look at the current publishing page of the forge : there is at least two other threads directly related to the subject (Moving with the times and A Web Site--What's Needed?). How come when we take part in those subjects, we only adress general issue like you could do that kind of thing ...
So, David are we doing enough ? Should we try to encourage that type of product (that would fit a service based) ? Shouldn't we be, somehow, the "torch bearer" (you can say this in french, not quite sure it works in english) on the subject ?
Now, there is no hand waving from my part, nor any elements about complaining. I think those kind of projects are pretty not common ; and this is not a problem for me. And I'm not saying we are the only ones working on that kind of projects neither. Here, I'm really talking about true, honest help on the subject. And even among us ? Are we really helping each other on the subject ?
Because, and let's remind us that very important point, building a service based, web hosted, model is very, but very costly, takes a lot of time and need some very specific skills.
Well, Raven, I'm not quite sure this thread is heading in the direction you intended ...
David Artman:
I'll try to reply without breaking into a point-by-point digression. A lot of what I'm gonna post is likely pointing out a bit of a language disconnect.
First, by "we" I mean "folks who make RPG books--physical products--and publish them with the intent of charging for them." You know... the folks on this site.
Second, GLASS is both product- and service-based: the former is a real, physical, hard-bound or soft-cover book you will be able to buy. The latter is the database engine, which is all that a GM needs to manage a GLASS game (except for "plot stuff," towards which GLASS is "agnostic"). Did I elect to do either to beat piracy? Well, no: the former can be easily scanned and made available online (as is every core D&D product); the latter is a loss-leader which I hope to eventually be a revenue channel (loss: db setup and bandwidth and maintenance as rules change; revenue: more and more ad views and eventual click-throughs, as the ad revolver "figures out" what interests GLASScutter.org users).
For GLASS to truly become a "service-only" model, I'd have to (a) give every version of the rule books away and (b1) offer myself as GM or Host for games or (b2) make myself available to write and tune game types for a particular play groups. That's what, I feel, would be "true services" for a product like GLASS, beyond the providence of online tools.
Third, my use of "don't tell anyone" is facetious, given that I am posting on one of the more popular game design sites. ;)
But the reason I'm not pointing folks to such a database and trying to use its service as a springboard to book sales is... well, the DB doesn't yet exist, nor does the book whose sales it should drive. :) But, you know... all in good time.
Finally, I doubt we're the only ones in the "RPG Scene" looking into multiple, secured revenue channels. Although I find many developers are content to sit on their laurels, once a book is out and making some money. Rarely does the "indie scene" provide new source material (or, hell, even design games which can be drifted or re-skinned to new source/setting material). Rarely are knock-on products explored. I'll give ya two, rather recent examples:
* Posting to Vincent's forum, talking about "Generic Dogs" as either (a) a new section in the Revised Edition to give GMs all of the steps to take to drift Dogs to a new setting, or (b) a private tool he could use to re-skin and release new setting games, or (c) an actual product in which the group sets up the setting and genre before even making characters or "towns" (a la Universalis). While, on some levels, Vincent does this (viz Afraid, which could be a "Dogs Expansion with New Setting") but nowhere near the level of, say, Hero System's bajillion expansions, supplements, and setting material.
* Hoping to find a "POD" dice provider -or- to help initiate some kind of arrangement for Burning [whatever] dice was met with what seems like little enthusiasm, in spite of the fact that some fifteen people were trying to setup an (expensive!) group-buy for custom Burning dice... that didn't, in fact COULDN'T, use the Burning logo or Vaylen worm art or (possibly) even the variations between black, gray, and white dice. Now, this could still be in the works... but it would have been about Job Four, for me, if my resolution mechanics involved a look-up chart or "translation" of the numeric values on a die to abstract notions of "partial or full success" (or whatever the jargon is, in Burning).
In the former example, Vincent could have leverage the "Dogs Engine" either internally--to crank out new products to suit popular trends--or externally as a "Generic Dogs" product which carries a play group through the re-skinning of escalation and the hierarchy of sin, etc. Now, SHOULD he have done as I (and others) advised/begged? Well, "should" is a shitty term. It's his to do with what he will. However, I'd argue that he'd (a) sell more books and (b) sell books to folks who dismiss the Mormon Gunslingers setting. For whatever reason, he is reducing his revenue channels by not fully leveraging the variety of play styles he could serve with such a powerful, flexible basic system.
In the second example, it could just be a case of not being interested in taking time to exchange emails or work out a business arrangement with a dice provider. Fair enough. But custom dice for a game is one solid way to avoid "piracy" or "copying": you got one supplier, and even if folks are willing to pay 3x or 4x as much to "re-do" them custom, you have the best price, being associated with a POD or short-run warehouser/retailer. Everyone wins: the designer (whose IP is inviolate and "protected" by market prices), the die manufacturer (who sells more plastic), and the customers (who have easier-to-use and cheaper dice with which to play). Something could still come of this notion, but it seems completely stalled at the moment, for want of a few emails and a (probably standard) consignment or royalty contract (if not POD, which would be trivial to setup with no risk to assign or share).
So maybe that's a third and fourth vector for getting through the digital age:
* Leverage work already done (reusing source, single-source) to make complementary products.
* Provide more, harder/impractical-to-copy, physical artifacts as product offerings to customers.
Anyway, just blabbing along a bit, now... Raven, are we drifting, here? Did you have some other focus--say, how to transition to digital-only products while not being copied to death, maybe?
David
greyorm:
David,
No, I honestly didn't expect this many replies, so I'm ok with wherever it gets dragged. I was posting mainly to see what thoughts would come out of the wilds on the subject, and honestly, this is some good stuff here, guys. Thanks for discussing it, and keep at it if you feel so inclined.
I will throw in a couple of things that I think would be valuable to consider: I personally think there's too much focus of thought on both 1) "profit" and 2) "stop the pirates".
1) I'm interested in hearing ideas how it might be leveraged into non-profit-oriented benefits for the publisher.
As an example, Ron's use of the Sorcerer forums here is an excellent implementation of the ideas -- his availability to ask about the rules, bounce ideas off of, and even engage with regarding supplemental development for the game are all value-added things that drive visibility for the game -- and yes, this can increase profits but isn't, I think, only useful for that.
Another example would be Evil Hat and the free availability of the FATE rule-set, which drives familiarity and thus usage -- and again has the potential to increase profits by increasing its visibility/use as a game engine, but which is not the only benefit that could be talked about.
I think it is important to consider and understand the non-profit benefits that can arise from pursuit of any of the eight, rather than a more straightforward "How can I leverage this to make more money?" considerations.
2) As to "stopping the pirates", you can't. Really. You can't. Stop trying. Stop setting "traps" for them. Stop worrying about it. Stop thinking about features in terms of "will this make piracy less commonplace/harder to pull off".
It is more important, I believe, to think in terms of "will this add value for my customer?" Stopping the pirates is a dead-end street because it stops being about real sales and useful product development and starts being about revenge/protection that simply does not benefit the consumer (not even by "protecting the producer's assets").
David Artman:
IP protection is not a trivial issue, though. Perhaps we've seemed over-focussed on that aspect (not surprising, given it's the premise from which that article begins) but at the end of the day, if some can steal a product while others pay, those who pay are in fact accounted amongst the "losers" in the deal (the writer and publisher are the obvious losers). Further, I think I did give sufficient attention to the post-sales service element of Sorcerer (see Interpretation above).
But, OK, let's talk value-add.
Custom dice for a resolution system that requires a translation is definitely one: it saves players time, if nothing else, as well as being evocative and aesthetically pleasing.
All the sales-support stuff (answering questions, errata releases, etc) are good, too (but review my concerns for generic products, which might have to give away valuable IP to maintain good will and, thus, Patronage).
And let's hammer on the Ransom Model again, for a moment. That's a win-win-win, to me; and I am going to employ it for some GLASS supplements: there's no glut of supplements with no market, users get content for "free" once the ransom is met, and the designer can set the ransom to provide whatever "wage" or "per-word payment" that he or she requires for compensation. Obviously, a free ransom--a giveaway supplement--fosters Patronage as well.
I still think my idea for a NetFlix model for one-off games (or modules) is an untapped potential market (I proposed it to much guffawing at Story Games). When a gaming product is a "use once" item--a module, a host-your-own murder mystery, a one-off parlor LARP--it's value to the customer is diminished, even as the production costs remain the same as for a highly-reusable core book (per page, at least). Only collectors or folks who play with many groups can happily absorb the outlay: the rest might appreciate a rental model. Does this deal with issue of folks copying the products? Not really. But why copy something you're going to run once? The Kinkos cost could (should!) be higher than your monthly NetGamez fees; and I, for one, can't stand to read things on-screen at the gaming table, so PDF copying is, for me, not an option--others might, of course. Obviously, this is not an especially trivial business to setup....
We could get weirder, by offering "craft" products. For instance, a custom cover bound to a (short-run) print, for each buyer. Pair with a painter or other craftsperson (Ooo! Woodcarving, woah!) and sell truly unique books: not one single copy of the book is identical to another; each is, in part, a unique work of art. (I thought Vincent was going to do this, when I saw his posts about the new DitV "quilted" covers--I thought his wife was gonna be quilting dust jackets for each copy! I'm a dumbass, sometimes.)
"Utility Products" like books of beautiful, color character sheets or laminated reference cards (something that I think would be GREAT for GLASS, being a LARP system!) or even playing mats like those that came out for some CCGs (say, for something like DitV, where dice are evoked and rolled and saved and put forward and sometimes set aside for Fallout).
(Can you tell I'm at the pub, with leisure to brainstorm? :) )
OK, let's go afield: how much would a player pay to have Chris Moeller or another great artist (*ahem* Raven) do a character illustration? An artist-designer could run an auction model on that: "I'm ready to do a character sketch, and here's the link to my eBay auction!" This is similar to the service model where Vincent makes customized Towns or I write up a complete game type--Templates, Toggles, Options, and all--for a LARP group.
And I'm spent.... More to come as I ponder it: this is actually a no-shit issue for me, as I am hoping to take the LARP and paintball worlds by storm with GLASS and, thus, I want every possible means of promoting it, supporting it and my customers, and keeping its long-tail alive for years (if not decades, like Hero has done)!
David
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