[TSoFading Suns] Secrets and Mysteries
Ron Edwards:
Hello,
It's always hard to separate enjoyment and inspiration for a setting, enjoyment of a given play group's interactions, and use and enjoyment of a particular set of rules. The vocabulary developed here is at least a stab at trying to parse them.
I'm interested in the points you've made, Kevin. They seem a lot like what my group(s) did with the Champions resolution system, over the course of the late 1980s. If I were to try to break them out into points, it'd go something like this.
1. Why and whom to fight: find something besides "Knock the other guy out of play" to fight for, such that character reactions and out-of-fight goals can be achieved. After all, beating up a foe merely means, in the long run, that another foe will step into place. But if fights transform character relationships, character social status, and foundations for GM and player decision-making in the future, then they matter ... and not only win/loss, but how they're won and lost.
2. How and where to fight: somehow break out of the "grind other person's points down" bit-by-bit model of combat resolution. Statistically-occasional shattering strikes is one way to do it; this is what criticals were actually for, in my view, when they appeared in the Arduin Grimoire 'way back when. I interpret your slight but crucial rules-shift as a way to do that, Kevin; it parallels the way that many groups inserted criticals into Champions (which did not exist in the rules). Another way is to utilize the immediate venue of the fight more creatively, as with the balcony scene.
Troels, I think that Kevin is describing some literal Drift - actual changes of the rules as well as a key interpretation - which are relevant to your points. I don't see this dialogue as you saying X and him saying Y. I think his descriptions actually back up yours, despite the superficial difference between "he likes it" and "I don't."
Best, Ron
Kevin Smit:
After thinking a bit more about how we played Fading Suns, it occurs to me that we shifted the system a bit more than I initially remembered. Oh, we left the combat VP system intact, but some other aspects of the system got tossed entirely.
First off, it occurred to me that we were using a Fortune in the Middle model of roll resolution. The agreement to do so was never explicit; it came about mostly because we wanted to maintain our sense of character integrity and moved naturally toward FitM as a way to accomplish that.
What got tossed entirely was the experience system. Come to think of it, I can't remember a role playing system where I've actually used the prescribed experience system. At the time, we were playing on weekends at 6-8 hours per session. Our group liked to see our characters develop, so the normal rules for progression per session weren't cutting it. Eventually we did what we do with every other game: we chucked the experience rules and negotiated development with the gm when we thought it appropriate.
The only time that started to break down was when our engineer started getting cybernetic upgrades. Suddenly his progression wasn't due to effort within the game but the amount of wealth his character had (and by that point in the game it was considerable). We stopped playing a short time after that, so the dispute was never resolved.
Per Fischer:
Thanks for posting this, Troels. I've managed to get my fingers on a couple of FS books incl. the Priests of the Celestial Sun Ron has praised elsewhere.
The porting to TSoY makes much sense to me (BW/BE would be another obvious choice). Have you posted anywhere what changes you have incorporated into the TSoY system, ie. renaming of Pools, new Keys, Secrets etc. to make it more Fading Suns? Or are you mostly using the Solar System as it is but with another setting attached?
Per
Troels:
On drift:
Thinking about it, I'm quite fond of drift. It often produces messy results, but fitting the game to your concrete needs can be good. I'm playing in a D&D campaign right now where we don't get xp for killing things, but we do get it for taking our exams... Don't most game designers get their feet wet drifting?
Per:
You are very welcome!
You can find some background on what I've done by following the link at the top of the thread. Otherwise, I'm pretty much sticking with the solar system. The name kind of fits, right;-)
Just remember to use the rules for "arms and armour" in social situations. At some point I'm going to hit my group with an inquisitorial courtroom drama. They will learn to fear that inquisitorial seal!
Systemwise, I'd say it depends very much on what you plan to actually do with FS. If we were running resistance to a symbiont infestation of a world, then bloody hell yes, BW is the way to go! Or a number of other setups, for that matter.
Yours, Troels
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