Setting of [Kult] in [Sorcerer]
lachek:
One of my fave game settings of all time is in the Swedish horror RPG "Kult":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kult
The game's base mechanics consist of your standard BRP-derived "roll under your skill", with some embellishments for quickly, deadly and extremely gruesome combat. There are rules for magic and summoning, but in the tradition of CoC, these tend to require giving up large chunks of the character's soul and/or sanity, and as such are mostly reserved for "teh evul" NPCs.
I've been itching for a ruleset to truly give the setting justice and put the focus on a personal horror experience rather than the we-pretend-to-be-investigators-but-really-we're-just-insane-heavy-weapons-specialists gameplay the stock rules tend to gravitate towards. It struck me that Sorcerer may be the game for it, complete with the central premise of "what will you do to get what you want".
Kult supplies "Archetypes" which maps nicely onto "Cover". It also forces characters to choose (often gruesome) "Dark Secrets" which might work in a roundabout way to create Kickers and Bangs. Most importantly, it has a "Mental Balance" stat, central to gameplay, which maps kind of - but not precisely - onto Humanity.
Mental Balance is a stat derived from the point totals of your Advantages and Disadvantages, and as such will be between -25 and +25 for most starting characters. The further away from 0 one gets, the less "human" the character is, with all what that entails. A high positive balance represents a saintly figure who have discarded their base desires, while with a high negative balance, you become a monstrosity ultimately driven by such desires. At +/-25, a psychiatrist would diagnose you with "mental problems requiring address". At +/-75, you're a complete basket case by "normal" standards. The game technically allows you to reach +/-500 before you are considered to have "transcended" your humanity entirely, and rewards the character with otherworldly powers at key steps along the path. The mechanics make it easier to move along your current direction than work backwards to 0, which along with the granting of superpowers tend to encourage players to let their characters descend deeper and deeper into madness.
It is easy to see how the positive scale of Mental Balance might map onto Sorcerer's Humanity score, or perhaps offset it such that Humanity 3 or 4 represents MB +/-0 with each point up or down representing 25 points or so of MB. I'm not sure that's a good solution, though - I may be missing something critical in the translation, or inadvertently causing some kind of screwed up reward loop that'll ultimately invalidate the premise of Sorcerer.
Will the Sorcerer and Soul supplement help me with this?
Any other ideas, especially from people familiar with Kult, would be greatly appreciated. Are there other parts of Kult I could emulate using Sorcerer? Are there any obviously incompatible areas? Has anyone tried something similar to this?
Peter Nordstrand:
Actually, I think that Kult and Sorcerer are a really bad match. (Disclaimer: I have not played the game since the early 90s.)
Two reasons:
1. There is no stat in Sorcerer that is anything like Mental Balance (or Sanity in Call of Cthulhu, or Humanity in Vampire). For one thing, Humanity in Sorcerer does most certainly not work in a way that is even remotely similar. There is literally nothing that says that a Sorcerer character with a high score in Humanity is more humane (or sane or more empathic or whatever your definition of the trait is) than a character with a low Humanity. We can talk more about this if you want, but the short answer is that handling Humanity the way you propose will definitely break the game.
2. The setting in Kult is not suitable for Sorcerer play, at least not if you plan to treat the various supernatural entities of Kult as demons in Sorcerer. Functional Sorcerer play demands that demons are unnatural abominations that must not, cannot, do not exist. There is no supernatural hierarchies waiting to be uncovered. The premise of Kult, on the other hand, is quite the opposite: Demons do exist, in fact they are the real reality, while our mundane world is a lie, an illusion.
Does this help? Ask questions.
All the best,
Peter
Ron Edwards:
Both of Peter's points are good, and I think they support the idea that one cannot "do Kult" with Sorcerer. However, can one "do Sorcerer" with Kult-inspired material? Absolutely, and in fact I did that very thing my own self.
The setting ideas presented in chapter 7 of the core book and developed further in chapter 1 of Sex & Sorcery were inspired in part by Kult: specifically, the "paths" of occult development. Kult has five; I ended up with three. The thematic or setting-based issues for my approach are different - in Kult, you go more and more extreme with sex, for instance, to crack open your perceptions and see things the way they truly are, risking more and more destruction as you go. In this application of Sorcerer, you find a way for this kind of transgression to yield insight rather than destruction. They're similar in content but do not quite follow identical trajectories.
In my list of references for the core book material, I forgot to include Kult, and only remembered the influence later. So I was sure to include it as a stated influence in the Sex & Sorcery chapter.
Now, all that said, you are completely right that The Sorcerer's Soul is actually the most important supplement for the issues you've raised. The material in Sex & Sorcery builds on that supplement, specifically its chapters 2 and 3, and therefore will make less sense in isolation from it.
Best, Ron
lachek:
I'm both encouraged and confused.
Quote from: Ron Edwards on February 22, 2008, 10:15:10 AM
Both of Peter's points are good, and I think they support the idea that one cannot "do Kult" with Sorcerer. However, can one "do Sorcerer" with Kult-inspired material? Absolutely, and in fact I did that very thing my own self.
My intent was to "do Sorcerer" against the wicked backdrop of Kult. See, I know how to "do Sorcerer", but the idea of "doing Kult" is far more nebulous, even (maybe especially) with the Kult rule set. What does Kult play consist of? Do you fight against the forces of darkness? Do you unravel mysterious plots? Do you try to remain sane and alive in a universe hostile beyond your imaginings? Do you consciously transgress human boundaries and sanity in order to achieve true power? Or do you just go along with whatever plot the GM feeds you this session? I love the Kult setting, but ultimately I have no idea what the game is about.
In Sorcerer, I trade my humanity for power/control - or I do not, as the case may be. The game is very explicitly about this balancing act, with Kickers and Bangs acting essentially as loaded McGuffins to propel the narrative through the premise.
Does this map onto Kult in some way? It seems to, and that is the basis of my question.
So if we agree that one form of "doing Kult" consists of:
Having real human desires, values and wants,Being able to conjure supernatural powers to fulfill those desires,Requiring the sacrifice of your humanity in the process,Yet, knowing that should that last spark of humanity disappear, all the desires, values and wants go along with it
then I would suggest that Mental Balance could map onto Humanity by some mechanic, and that if it drops off the bottom (let's face it, who really goes for positive MB in Kult?) then the character becomes unplayable by Sorcerer rules, rather than an enlightened madman (likely unplayable in practice) by Kult rules. The game, then, becomes about ensuring that despite your increased understanding of the cosmology and the power over reality (or Illusion, depending on your point of view) which that brings, you still maintain your sense of self.
This seems almost dead-on Sorcerer play to me. What am I missing?
Quote from: Peter Nordstrand on February 22, 2008, 09:51:13 AM
1. There is no stat in Sorcerer that is anything like Mental Balance (or Sanity in Call of Cthulhu, or Humanity in Vampire)...
2. The setting in Kult is not suitable for Sorcerer play, at least not if you plan to treat the various supernatural entities of Kult as demons in Sorcerer....
Peter, can you elaborate on how these (very valid) points would break Sorcerer?
For your point #1, are you saying that the number next to Humanity on your Sorcerer sheet is not a quantitative measure at all, but some sort of abstract game token with no representation in the fiction? That is, when a Sorcerer loses Humanity by performing a heinous act, they lose a "point" of "currency" and get closer to "losing" the "game", but this doesn't necessarily reflect in the internal or external state of the Sorcerer hirself? And when a Sorcerer banishes a demon, they "redeem" themselves and regain a "point"? This is counter to my limited understanding, but even if this is fact - would changing this behaviour to reflect the functionality of Kult's Mental Balance stat necessarily break Sorcerer? In what way and why?
For #2, I thought I was with you until you said "Functional Sorcerer play demands that demons are unnatural abominations that must not, cannot, do not exist". Is this a notion supplied in expansions I'm unfamiliar with? The demonic examples in Sorcerer proper lists a number of "demons" that are very, very real, like fighty robot jet fighters a la Macross, if memory serves. Perhaps more telling, while the text encourages players to go beyond such derivative tripe, it does admit that one of the most obvious interpretations of demons are Dante-esque torturers of the damned who hangs out in Inferno and tempts young sorcerers in exchange for their immortal souls. In light of such interpretations, how does Kult's setting invalidate Sorcerer's premise?
Peter Nordstrand:
A good meaty post, indeed. However, I need time. Please be patient. Perhaps someone else will beat me to it.
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