Things that just ARE plain taboo, as far as RPGs are concerned
mcdaldno:
Grinning Moon,
I'm sort-of working on a game called Angelic Pervert right now, which is a story game about hentai. Mostly explicit sex scenes.
The system focuses on social contract and being very clear about what's okay and what isn't (the most solid part of the system is something called Squicks, which is all about drawing Lines and diverting into safe ground). It's about getting to the goods quick, and reveling in it once you're there.
And it's meant to be played as a tabletop roleplaying game, sessions of about 2-3 hours. No masturbation is intended to go on during gameplay.
Are you saying that a game like Angelic Pervert is just not okay?
I actually see what you're saying as being more "don't dilute your game with something that it isn't (ie, sex)" rather than "don't make your game about something (ie, sex)". Is that the case? Is Angelic Pervert going to get your stamp of approval?
Ron Edwards:
Well, hold on just a second ...
Let's not stake down a person in terms of a demanded opinion. I moderated earlier to get this thread away from opinion and approval.
Furthermore, Grinning Moon, you really haven't complied with my moderator requirement to state a new topic. You stated something which relied on the word "important," and I posted to indicate that you must tell us what you mean by that.
Until we know, then we all have to guess. And that's no good - it means that people will see accusations where there aren't any, or they will have to accept accusations when they didn't expect it, and all that. It also means that the thread becomes a bunch of mental attention directed towards you rather than towards a topic.
Please clarify.
Best, Ron
Eero Tuovinen:
Or, in other words - please do participate some more, Grinning Moon; as you can see, we're all a bunch of lecherous perverts just chomping at the reins to get to discuss this topic ;)
btrc:
I dunno. Morality and taboo are not absolutes, they're cultural, varying with place and time. The very notion of D&D is anethema to some people, but that doesn't stop us from running dungeon crawls. Some folks might think a Mormon gunslinger game is kind of out there, or one where you do despicable things as the minion of an evil master, but the beauty or lack thereof is in the eye of the beholder.
Practically speaking, the only real taboo is wasting time on a subject where the intersection of (people interested in subject matter and gamers) is so small that the general outrage or disapproval far outweighs any benefit or profit from the game treatment of the subject. So, while it is possible I -could- make the Nazi Death Camp Kiddie Porn rpg (and a line of miniatures to go with it), I just don't think it's worth it.
But a game whose sole purpose is tittilation? I've got no problem with that, even if it is only played "solo". Game design purists might frown upon it, but if the buyer is happy with the product, then the designer -has succeeded-. And if you want to see a multiplayer game of this type, do a search for "Hentacle" at RPGnow. Totally tasteless, but people still buy it. By no means award-winning in terms of game mechanics and concept, but you've got to give them credit for cajones the size of coconuts for publishing it.
Greg Porter
BTRC
tymotzues:
Well even if Grinning Moon doesn't return this is an interesting and pertinent thread for this topic.
As publishers and designers we need to keep in mind our product to audience. And while there are plenty of products out there that we may not agree with, that probably means we arent the projected audience.
While ignoring the broader issue I'd like to focus on what got us on this topic in the first place - hentai.
While not a fan, I'm sure as a teenager it would have floated my boat, even if some of the content is both grotesque and appauling to my morals.
Yet we all have a dark side - that's just human nature - whether we want to admit it too ourselves or not.
But as I was saying.
Unless you are Japanese the actual intent of Hentai may escape you. (I'm not japanese - but have actually written thesis on very similar subject matter relating to japanese culture)
Firstly Japanese culture does not have the sense of guilt associated with sex that the christian west (whether your religious or not) or Judaic/Islamic East possesses. We are bought up in cultures which have been built on religious beliefs that still feed into our social conscience.
The Japanese never had this. Their relationship to sex and sexual relations are very different to the western world. As such these things may be viewed as uncouth but they are not necessarily perverse or uncharacteristic in their culture
Also the stringent nature of Japanese culture, the strict codes that they are pressured to adhere to from birth create a breeding ground for what western civilization would describe as neurosis, mental disorder, and what child psychologists would view as fixation behaviour models (and I'm not talking Fruedian here - although some of his theories in this area do pan out - but most are have now been proven OTT). I'm not suggesting that the Japanese as a people are mentally ill, unstable or sex crazed - merely that psychologically they are prone to dealing with stress, want, lust, attraction, anger, hate, fear, isolation, embarrassment and power in manners that may appear to a western audience as taudry, amoral, crude or even obscene.
Yet to label these things as such is culturally insensitive - pending that the publication is for that audience.
Now I can see that to most westerners such a publication would cause outrage and I can see why because I would have reservations about such a publication as well.
Yet I'd like to put forward a particular view. Assuming such a publication was done in good taste (?) with all possible warnings and protections for ensuring that any questionable material doesn't fall into the hands of young people (<12?). Allowing these issues to be explored within a RPG environment could not only act as a tool for psychological development but also expression and release.
How often through playing do we find ourselves confronted with a moral dilemma that we solve as 'we' would solve it, not as our character might? And this teaches us something about ourselves does it not? Yet it also affords us the chance to explore these issues in a way that doesn't hurt anyone, is not infringing upon anyones liberty or rights.
We accept graphic and excessive violence, horror and brutality and sexism within our RPGs with little comment - at times defending such things as being part and parcel of the genres, story, characterisation, etc.
Sex is one of the most fundamental aspects of humanity - yet centuries of censorship, doghma and persecution - primarily used to limit the physical and social power of women has lead us to shy away from talking about it openly and in a manner of reverence/freedom that it deserves.
The setting of Taboos is what created Hentai in the first place - creating more taboos will only deepen the fissues to the dark places of our psyches - let's not go there.
Sex deserves a place in our games - the emotions and actions surrounding it are no less valid as tools of exploration into our characters than violence, greed, heroism, liberty, revenge or self sacrifice.
I, for myself, can't say a game about hentai interests me - but if it fits the needs of an audience who feel that they can express themselves through it's mechanics and particular style then I'm all for that. And if this means that they are freed of their demons for a time, find community with friends of similar ilk or even determine a firm opinion for or against such issues all for the good.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page