How long do Rollovers bonuses last?
Joel P. Shempert:
Well, that all makes good sense. Do you mind helping me dissect a bit how we could have gotten what we were aiming for in that little interaction without mangling the text?
So Nobody, played by Seth, is darting out the door and Sugarbaker, played by Jake, is trying to ask him his name. they roll, and SB wins with 3 successes. Now, my understanding is that nothing at this point forces Nobody to divulge his name--SB merely succeeded in asking before he got out the door. But what he actually wants is an answer. . .how did winning that roll help him with that? Nobody's still off and running. Or does it only help if he pursues it? Like, "oh no, you don't--I'm grabbing your arm before the door closes and force you to deal with me!" and then he'd have the +3 to grab 'im. But if he just stands there and let's him go, then he loses the initiative (not "initiative" in the D&D-sense, but in the real-world sense) and gives up his objective.
If that's the deal, then it's a lot like a "soft' version of Dogs in the Vineyard: sure, you can get what you want if you press hard enough, but how far are you willing to go? Are you going to wrestle the shifty street kid down on your front porch just to extract a name from him (which is just a confounding street nick anyway)? Interesting. My players are all Dogs fans, maybe I should play up that aspect of the rules to them.
Peace,
-Joel
PS I'm wondering if I should move this over to my new Sorcerer AP. . .but then again the issue seems wrapped up pretty well.
Ron Edwards:
Hi Joel,
I apologize for forgetting about this discussion. "I can answer that," I thought, and was promptly distracted by more difficult stuff.
Anyway, to review, here's what you wrote:
Quote
Jake's character was trying to get a name out of his new (possibly crazy) housemate--Seth's character--before he took off to get the rent money, I told them to roll Will vs. Will. Jake won with three victories, and Seth said "that's fine, I'm still leaving without telling him my name." I told them that Jake's PC would then have a +3 bonus for further interaction with Seth, representing Seth's guy seeming really shifty and flaky and failing to inspire confidence.
I can sorta see a justification in that, while both PCs are conceivably going to do other things before interacting again, the bonus could still be applied to Jake's next action toward that character. it's like if two characters were having an argument over the phone, hang up without resolving it, then one of them calls back to resume--the new actions are of a continuity with the old actions, thus belonging in the same sequence and benefiting from rollover.
It all depends on Seth's character's next conflict and hence roll. If you wanted Jake's character's victories to matter, then it's up to you as GM to hit Seth's character with a relevant Bang. I can't tell from your post who was going to get the rent money, but let's say it was Seth's character. Perhaps a relevant Bang would then be some money-type confrontation in which someone asks about his roommate (i.e. Jake's character). Then Seth's character would be down three dice, having just been rattled by the interaction.
In the absence of such conflict and moving on to some other situation for Seth's character, the victories dissipate and are mechanically no longer meaningful. That is how it should be, leaving it completely up to Jake, now, in playing his character, to decide whether and how he will treat and deal with the other character.
It is tempting to see the Sorcerer system as a wind-up toy which generates multiple criss-crossing dice-sets of influences across any number of potential interactions in later play. It doesn't do that, and I suggest avoiding that trap, tempting though it may seem, and treating the system as what it's meant to do - a breaking, striking, wave-front that leaves a story behind.
Best, Ron
Joel P. Shempert:
Cool, thanks for getting back to it. Yes, it was Seth's character going for the money, and yes, all this you've written is quite clear. Cool.
Quote from: Ron Edwards on September 01, 2008, 07:56:57 AM
If you wanted Jake's character's victories to matter, then it's up to you as GM to hit Seth's character with a relevant Bang.
Very apt tip, thanks. In this case I was honestly just trying more than anything else to demonstrate the rollover rules in action more than anything else, and get everyone the idea of "see, here's where you reach for the dice, and here's how it can help you." I flubbed it, but hey, I'm back on track now.
Quote from: Ron Edwards on September 01, 2008, 07:56:57 AM
a breaking, striking, wave-front that leaves a story behind.
That is so cool.
Peace,
-Joel
Tasseomancer:
Thanks Ron,
Sorry for the late reply. I hope GenCon was a success!
Those two rules really help me define rollover bonuses in my head.
I can definitely see how floating bonuses could easily get out of hand, and make the game confusing and a management night mare, slowing the game.
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...rolls in Sorcerer are momentary. They appear like lightning and their results strike like lightning. The bonuses don't create environment for a variety of rolls; they simply make the next bolt strike harder.
I guess I should always think in terms of the Paul Czege quote you gave in my Cover Bonus on Stamina Rolls question.
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=26516.0
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grabbing a live wire.
There's definitely a lot of electrical metaphors in the game! When there aren't playing in a band metaphors.
Mark
Ron Edwards:
Hi Mark,
Good deal. You've asked a lot of questions which have helped a lot of people.
And hey, it's an amped (i.e. electric) band. And you forgot the sexy/crude references. So that means, let's see, an amped, raunchy band. Who could that be, I wonder?
And she's playin' all night, and the music's all right / Mama's got a squeeze box, Daddy never sleeps at night
The lady, then she covered me in roses / She blew my nose and then she blew my mind
Squeeze my lemon 'til the juice runs down my leg
Ah. Works for me.
Best, Ron
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