[Sorcerer] Hyborian Age as a S&S setting
rabindranath72:
Hi all,
new to the boards, new to Sorcerer and Sorcerer & Sword, bought them two days ago, and I literally devoured them. Excellent material!
I have been searching for a good RPG which would support playing in the Conan setting (IMO d20 Conan is not a good system for playing in this kind of setting), and I guess I have found it in S&S.
I have a campaign running with d20 Conan, but I would gladly "move it" to Sorcerer. The problem is, only one of the players could be considered a sorcerer; the other two are not much into sorcery at all (in d20 Conan, they are a thief and a nomad, respectively). Now, how would you assign Lore for these two character types? Would you consider them Lore 0, or perhaps Lore 1 (Naive), just to contemplate the fact that they are main characters, and might some day access some ritual? Perhaps not strictly related to Demons, but much like the thief who destroys the magical wards of the tomb of Nathok, or Conan in Beyond the Thunder River (though Conan tracing a sort of Warding spell might be considered strictly sorcery).
Thanks,
Antonio
Ron Edwards:
Hello,
If you examine the thief and nomad characters in Howard's fiction, you will find that they use Lore quite often. It's usually defensive, or involves some kind of weird item or substance rather than a Bound demon, but it's there. Taurus, certainly the classic example of the professional thief in Howard's fiction, does exactly this in Tower of the Elephant.
It may help to consider situations in which knowledge, or at least familiarity with demonic and scary stuff, is a better defense than simply fighting it. Despite a lot of he-man rhetoric, Conan often encounters things for which his sword or wits are inadequate. He deals with them by using rituals or interactions which can only be called sorcerous - see Beyond the Black River for his Containment of the swamp devil, or his authority over the vampire in Hour of the Dragon (usually titled Conan the Conqueror).
Try to throw away the idea of "fighter vs. magic-user." In classical sword-and-sorcery, heroes always have at least one foot in the sorcerous zone. It doesn't mean they throw spells or own demons - it means they know about them and can handle them in their own terms.
Best, Ron
rabindranath72:
Mr. Edwards,
thanks for the detailed answer and the precious suggestions.
I am definitely willing to do a "paradigm shift" and throw away the idea of "fighter vs. magic-user". I am quite frankly tired of the needless complexity of games which shape a setting based on rules. To me, rules must be a medium, not the end.
Thanks again for the answers, and for all the excellent food for thought in Sorcerer and Sorcerer & Sword.
Erik Weissengruber:
Dont' be afraid to treat any kind of traditional or tribal myth/prayer/rite as a form of Lore.
Odysseus, in the Odyssey, makes a physical journey to the mouth of hell and with a few traditional rites he is able to summon up the prophet Tiresias. He never went to sorceror's school, never wears a pointy hat, etc.
Each of the Heroes in the Iliad is watched over by a god who provides favours in return for services, exemplary actions, etc. Many are possessed by their Daimon or by a passion that allows them to do extraordinary things at costs to their general humanity.
Achiles' and his wrath is one such hero.
And again, he never inscribes glyph decorated circles or sacrifices puppies to the horned one.
Now the sorceror game is about those who make conscious decisions to treat with inhuman powers so you have to have a bit of Prometheus or Faust in your characters.
But bust that paradigm, bust it into a thousand tiny shards.
Finarvyn:
Hey, Ron. Thanks for giving some comments about this – I also have been thinking about using S&S to run a Conan-setting game and I’m hoping that this thread will provide a good jump-start in this endeavor.
Quote from: Ron Edwards on August 19, 2008, 05:22:32 AM
If you examine the thief and nomad characters in Howard's fiction, you will find that they use Lore quite often. It's usually defensive, or involves some kind of weird item or substance rather than a Bound demon, but it's there. Taurus, certainly the classic example of the professional thief in Howard's fiction, does exactly this in Tower of the Elephant.
I’m still a bit uncertain about this. I mean, I think I get the basic concept that Taurus can be a “sorcerer” even if not a spell-caster, but as a GM how do I handle this? From your example, I’m guessing that Taurus might use Lore to detect a trap or avoid it. Am I thinking correctly?
Quote from: Ron Edwards on August 19, 2008, 05:22:32 AM
It may help to consider situations in which knowledge, or at least familiarity with demonic and scary stuff, is a better defense than simply fighting it. Despite a lot of he-man rhetoric, Conan often encounters things for which his sword or wits are inadequate. He deals with them by using rituals or interactions which can only be called sorcerous - see Beyond the Black River for his Containment of the swamp devil, or his authority over the vampire in Hour of the Dragon (usually titled Conan the Conqueror).
I’m going to go dust off these stories again to check out your examples.
Quote from: Ron Edwards on August 19, 2008, 05:22:32 AM
Try to throw away the idea of "fighter vs. magic-user." In classical sword-and-sorcery, heroes always have at least one foot in the sorcerous zone. It doesn't mean they throw spells or own demons - it means they know about them and can handle them in their own terms.
This does certainly require a shift in the way we think of the game. I guess I’m used to trying to imagine how a character would control a demon and the other examples seem to be trickier for me to come up with at the moment. But I’ll stay with it because my brain still seems stuck in the “you are a sorcerer and cast spells, or you’re not” and getting the concept of “sorcerers can be non-spellcasters” still makes my brain hurt a little.
Thanks again for the insight!
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