[Sorcerer] Hyborian Age as a S&S setting
Christopher Kubasik:
Hi Vortigern,
(I tried to find your name, but I might have missed it!)
We had a thread about this a while back: Premise in Sorcerer & Sword
http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=2493.msg24380;topicseen#msg24380
Back in 2002, I wrote:
Quote
Humanity is living by your Golden Rule, whatever that Golden Rule is for you. This is why the central tenant is treating friends and family well. But when you break your own code, for friend, family, yourself, or are caught in any kind of no-win choice, a part of you is wounded by breaking your Golden Rule. If you're dealing with lunkhead caninbal mutants out in the hills, fine, mow them down. But what if it turns out they actually live by a code you respect -- and you still have to mow them down to get to the woman you love? This guys could have been your buddies -- but not in this lifetime -- Ouch! And your sense of living by your own code is threatened, and thus Humanity is risked.
And Ron replied:
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Hey,
Works for me. This is now my "point to" thread for the Sorc&Sword Premise inquiry.
Best,
Ron
So this might be something to consider as we move forward.
CK
Vortigern:
I'm not certain if the 'Golden Rule' explanation of Humanity really makes sense to me, though terming it 'Honor' or something like that might work for a Hyborian Age setting. A lot of the material seems to depict the struggle between corrupt decadence ( seen as the trappings of society ) and simple trueness of barbarism. The point however is that violence isn't as much of an ethical concern in the lit. Conan doesn't think twice about cracking the skull of an enemy. And if you want to have a S&S with a real hyborian feel... the PCs shouldn't stop to consider such either. Ethical concerns perhaps should be more about deciding who to fight, or why... and then don't worry about it once the blood starts to fly.
I would say I think potential for losses having to do with sorcerous sacrifice should perhaps stay, but with some sort of rule allowing one to mitigate the risk via some kind of roleplaying or resource expenditure etc. Otherwise sorcerers that keep pace with the classical role models in the genre will, I would think, rapidly descend into the 'madness' or 'utter depravity' of zero. How to work that however I'm not exactly certain on.
Ron Edwards:
I have some more thoughts on Sword & Sorcery Humanity; it's been a topic of long-term consideration. I'll have to get to them later.
For the moment, and only as piece of the issue, I call attention to Pelleas, my favorite sorcerer in the Conan stories. He's certainly lost some Humanity - in fact, that's displayed in one of the most explicit scenes about this nebulous quality in literature - but he is, also explicitly, "still human" and looks to remain that way.
Damn, I called him my favorite and then Khemsa and Thoth-Amon indignantly clamored for my mental attention. Okay, guys, I'll post about you soon! Geez!
Pulp-fantasy sorcerers keep their sanity by enjoying life, and part of that is choosing sides and caring about the living. Meaning the full range of "to care."
Best, Ron
Christopher Kubasik:
While I'm looking forward to Ron's additional response, Vort, I want to point out that in my use of "Your Golden Rule" I made no bones about acts of violence, or ethical concerns thereof. The concern was over who you were killing.
I think there's a big difference there.
CK
rabindranath72:
Quote from: Vortigern on September 04, 2008, 06:44:03 PM
I would say I think potential for losses having to do with sorcerous sacrifice should perhaps stay, but with some sort of rule allowing one to mitigate the risk via some kind of roleplaying or resource expenditure etc. Otherwise sorcerers that keep pace with the classical role models in the genre will, I would think, rapidly descend into the 'madness' or 'utter depravity' of zero. How to work that however I'm not exactly certain on.
I do not think the risk should be mitigated. Humanity 0 in S&S does not mean "madness" (this is reserved for Lore), but certainly could mean depravity of some sort (see Tsotha-Lanti or Zogar Sag).
Sorcerers like Khemsa, Thoth-Amon or Pelias surely have higher humanity scores than the above guys.
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