[Under My Skin]...got under my skin. Now, with pictures!
EarthenForge:
Awesome Ron! I'm bursting at the seams with replies, but I've gotta run off to work! I'll get back to this when I'm home.
Niobe:
Hi people,
thank you so much for posting all this. Our UMS-session was for me one of the most intense experiences in a Gen Con packed with intense experiences. Thank you all so much!
I don't really know where to start, so I will just jump into the middle of things:
I absolutely noticed the way Martin was paying attention to Kelly in the first group scene when she got up to make drinks.
Playing a game like that so close to the chest would not have been my first impulse, but it was a big part of what made this whole thing so much of an experience. What impressed me most was the natural way everything fell into place. Best example: When Rob and I got together to talk about what our relationship would look like in the game, we independently both started out with the exact same idea of the relationship.
I learned a LOT about myself playing this game with you folk. Thank you! The one quizzing you about the negative things you said about Judy, Ron, was mainly me, because I wondered whether I could learn something from it about myself.
There was a point in the game where I disconnected a bit from my character, because in fact I as a player connected more with Dean than with Martin (and here I am strictly talking about the characters). I did not at all feel that Dean was manipulationg or passive-aggressive. My impression of him was that he in fact was very open with his opinions and feelings wich is something I like very much. On the other hand Martin with his pent up agggression and his airs of intellectual superiority (especially in the first group scene) rather frightened me.
This divergence between me and my character is what led to the "happy end" that I too find very ambigous. I was very surprised that Judy didn't at all have problems not telling Dean about her crossing his lines and still could be very emotionally open to him, because I don't think I, Sarah, would have been able to do that. I am much more like Dean and need to share everything with my partner.
I have since thought a lot about the opinions that were expressed in and around the game that this openness is not entirely healthy, and I am absolutely gratefull for that kind of input and the way it made me think, but I still think that I could not trust my partner if I could not be sure that he would tell me if something was wrong.
It was wonderfull playing with you folk and I hope I was able to show you how personally valuable it was to me. Also I am very glad that we are staying in contact.
Hugs
Sarah
Robert Bohl:
That's interesting, Ron. I didn't see her knocking back shots in that scene. What I saw was her husband being cold to her and making her get drinks for everybody, and so I was encouraging her to break what I thought was a silly rule (because I didn't see her as alcoholic).
It is fascinating to me, too, how twerpy Dean came off to you. I totally get why he seemed like a manipulative shit to some people, but in almost every moment when I was playing him, I felt in the moment like what he was doing was as right and genuinely honest as he was capable of being. Basically, he took a good idea (being honest) too far, and had a very hard time not being pure about it, not being able to see the grey spaces between things.
I felt extremely uncomfortable with his "happy ending" being that he and Judy start to lie to each other. If that had been a movie or play or story I would be extremely conflicted about whether or not I liked it. When Sarah asked me at the end about that--challenged me on it, really--I immediately felt something like guilt. "Deception is good," was not what I was trying to say, but it was--and still is--extremely hard for me to articulate how the brand of aggressive honesty on display there is harmful, and what the other choices are that one can make in that situation.
Thorny, prickly, and fun as shit. Thanks, everybody.
Ron Edwards:
Hi Rob,
This might be grading into a values-discussion rather than a discussion of our shared/created story, but I think it's OK as a follow-up to your statement of fascination.
Basically, I think there's a big difference between honesty and simply blurting out whatever one feels like at a given moment. I at least have thoughts, sensations, reactions, and possible utterances swimming through my mind at all time. It's not "honest" to give them all voice at every opportunity; it's glossolalia.
It actually goes deeper than that, though. I need to take it down to this next level because that's the one that's relevant to Dean. I've known a lot of people who tried to live "fully honestly," and in practice, what tends to happen is that they use an internal consult on how sincere they feel as a guide for speaking. If they feel sincere, then they speak.
The trouble is, feeling sincere is very easy to do - it's a behavior, not a condition. The people I've dealt with get so good at feeling sincere no matter what, they end up saying whatever no matter what ... and again, in practice, this becomes a tactic for influencing others' emotions and establishing control than any sort of communication from one person to another. This is the essence of hard-core salesmanship, for instance, and also, incidentally, successful spying and spy-handling in the real world. The internal sensation of sincerity becomes a whore for power.
This is what Dean was like, as I saw it; or more accurately, that's where this generally good-natured young man was headed if he didn't get some kind of perspective on it. I don't see it as about honesty at all. In fact, I now realize when I started liking the guy: when he said, correctly in my view, that he and Judy were trying to do this unusual thing on their own and kind of groping their way along without knowing whether and how people could be hurt by it.
Best, Ron
Emily Care:
Thanks for the great play report, Rachel! And the great discussion, everyone. It's ironic that these parallel but oh-so-different relationships ended up taking on elements of the other at the end. The open and honest relationship turning into one where you keep secrets, the monogamous one tolerating and not acknowledging the real depth of the hit it had taken from one partner straying. Very bittersweet happy endings indeed.
The characters seemed to hit home and feel real though. Ron, it's funny that you slip and refer to Rachel as Kelly a couple places in your posts. :)
Quote
Which leads me to Kelly. Afterwards I wanted to shake her (even though I was the one playing her) and yell, “What was that about?! ‘Nope!’ Are you kidding me?! Tell him that your still f**king angry about the affair!” But alas, it didn’t happen in play, so it didn’t happen. I don’t know why I didn’t say it.
It's crazy isn't it? In these games, you just can't decide what characters will think or feel or do. They have a life of their own, and sometimes make such bad, bad decisions. Or at least ones we would disagree with thoroughly. I guess they are like the sacrificial lamb. We can let them do things that we would (hopefully) not do, and get to see how it plays out, or at least how it feels.
Quote
10. In one of the final scenes, Martin was pretty unkind in speaking of Judy to Kelly. I don't think that sat well with Em, who quizzed me a little bit about it afterwards.
I was busy having my own judgements about the character. We probably all have our own way of seeing the story and the characters. In my eyes, Martin was blowing smoke in Kelly's eyes by denegrating Judy, or trying to convince himself that it was meaningless because he cared so little about her. It was a chilling, and very human, moment. I think we've all done that at some time or another. The conflicts between Martin and Dean were fascinating to watch, also. I literally thought they could come to butting heads at several moments. You guys played out some major territorial displays.
Quote
This divergence between me and my character is what led to the "happy end" that I too find very ambiguous. I was very surprised that Judy didn't at all have problems not telling Dean about her crossing his lines and still could be very emotionally open to him, because I don't think I, Sarah, would have been able to do that. I am much more like Dean and need to share everything with my partner.
I have since thought a lot about the opinions that were expressed in and around the game that this openness is not entirely healthy, and I am absolutely grateful for that kind of input and the way it made me think, but I still think that I could not trust my partner if I could not be sure that he would tell me if something was wrong.
I hope that's useful to you, Sarah. Sometimes the best way to know what we want is by seeing what doesn't work for us. Also, what people mean by honesty matters so much. Real honesty would seem to have to include taking responsibility for the effects of ones words. There were moments in the game that felt like honesty was being used as a weapon--Dean telling Judy he'd kissed someone else and pressuring her to be okay with it since "he'd done the right thing." The approach to being honest matters so much as well, but doesn't make being dishonest a virtue!
It was a pleasure to play with you all! Thank you so much for bringing so much to each part. And thank you, Tobias for your help and for introducing me and us all to this kind of labyrinth of the heart.
best,
Em
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page
[*] Previous page