Can someone explain the true reason behind "traits" (PtA style) to me?
Markus:
Hello! This is my first post here at the forge. I finally decided to de-lurk because of a very specific question I have, but first of all let me introduce myself as a RPGer.
I started playing about 20 years ago or so... no wait, it's 21 actually, which makes me feel strange, you know. Now I'm 32. Anyway, in my first RPG years I was a fan of having as much "realism" as possible; the more rules & details, the better it was for me. I alternated between being a GM and a player, and I was happy. You know, I dug MERP, Rolemaster, HarnMaster, and the like. Life was simple. Later on, when I was about 16, I started to get fed up with all this stuff and began my own (unsatisfying) attempt at crafting, you know, "stories" via RPG sessions. The only problem was that I didn't have the necessary clarity of thinking to understand what *I* considered to be a "story", nor to understand which elements of the dozens of systems I tried (and/or designed) were useful and which weren't. I naively thought that the less system I used, the better it was (I wanted NO system to interfere with "storytelling", you know). The odd thing is that the few attempts at freeform I played kinda sucked, which puzzled me to no end, until I decided that *some* system was needed (but exactly what and how much, I hadn't a clue). Dissatisfied with the whole RPG experience, I stopped roleplaying for like 8-9 years. Somehow I knew that the RPG medium could be something better than what I had experienced, but I didn't know what to do about it. A couple of years ago I was involved in a LARP some friends of mine were organizing, and, frankly, it sucked. However, I got to know people that renewed my interest in RPGs and heard of the forge for the first time.
Wow, I can't explain how much the stuff I found here helped me! In many, many occasions, what I found was a step-by-step description (and often a solution, too) of all the stumbling blocks I had experienced. So, to make a long story short, now I know what I like in RPGs, and I have a reasonable idea of how to get it (that doesn't mean of course that I get it all the times, but it helps immensely). Finding the forge was like finding my own "RPG RealBook"!
My favourite shade of RPG is vanilla narrativism, with the quirk of an almost zero-tolerance for system handling time. I like simple, powerful situations (that's fantasy most of the times: what Ron Edwards calls the "rock-and roll of roleplaying", only that I suspect I'm more towards punk, to push the analogy further). I like those sessions in which lots of significative, climatic stuff *happens*. As a GM, I want to see the characters taking decisions, and the players caring for those decisions. I totally adhere to the Sorcerer & Sword analogy of "GMing as bass-playing". I'm a bass player, you know, and it's really, really spot-on.
My favourite systems are The Pool (although I suspect that one cannot reasonably play it satisfyingly without reading a dozen or so of pool-related topics here at the forge) and Trollbabe. I kinda like Sorcerer, but believe it or not, the system is already a tad too involved for me right now. Maybe in the future Iìll change mindset, who knows. Anyway, I think that Sorcerer + its supplements is mandatory reading for anyone wanting to play, say, The Pool in the proper way. Oh well, at least what I think the 'proper' way. I also kinda like PtA, but I cannot make it work. In my hands, it feels like a clumsy tool, and I did not understand *exactly* what I'm missing, even though a couple of recent threads shoved me in what I suspect is the right direction... we'll see.
Ok, sorry for the long introduction: here comes my question.
Believe it or not, it all started reading (and playing exactly once) Elfs. You know, that "low cunning" score? It's so funny, so elegant to use in play. Here the system is basically saying to you: "you'll be rewarded if you do *this* stuff". And *pop* goes the bulb in my head! In that moment, I understood no less than two different things: (1) how the bonus dice of Sorcerer should work. Or, to re-phrase it slightly, I found a functional way of looking at the bonus dice in Sorcerer: one I could use effectively in play. And, (2) why I like Trollbabe re-rolls so much. Which brings (finally!) to my question.
I like Elfs' "low cunning", Trollbabe's "rerolls", and Sorcerer "bonus dice", because they're an incentive for the players to actually create new, relevant content/color! And they work marvellously for that. Now, what I don't get, is instead what I'm supposed to do with what most recent RPGs call "traits". Like PtA's, or ThePool's, I'm sure you know what I mean. Via "traits", the system rewards players that add permutations of *the same* content again and again to the story. And I don't get this. I don't know how to make it work, or perhaps I'm not seeing something important.
During one session of The Pool, I got exausthed by the whole thing and basically said, "OK guys, let me do a small experiment. From now on, traits do not have any mechanical effect. They're sometihng that you listed as important dor your character, and both the GM and the other players *know* about it". Can you see my point? The "traits" are still there, or at least, what I consider their "functional" part is still there. Only, no mechanical reward for stating for the sixth time in the session/series that your character is [insert anything here].
So my question is, can you show me a functional way of using "traits", The Pool and PtA style?
Sorry if something isn't clear, but english isn't my first language and I seldom use it outside the web. And, thanks in advance!
M
Ron Edwards:
Hi Markus,
Welcome to the Forge! I had an eery feeling when I read your post; the whole story-crisis history reflects my own.
Anyway, that is a fantastic issue you've brought up. I know I've avoided using designated traits in my games, and even when I had named qualities, I've always been careful to keep them minimally involved in the mechanics of resolution.
Yet I also know that I can use such mechanics, but on reflection, it's hard to say how. I think ... well, at the moment I think here's what I've been doing with them over the years. It's not about using the same trait over and over, so much as having to choose among them at any given instance of play. In PTA, I have three such things to choose from, and I have to use one of them. Which will it be? Mechanically, it doesn't matter whether it's Bad-ass (Edge) or Cute Alien Sidekick (Ally), but it does matter quite a bit regarding how my character deals with the situation. By "matter," I mean the character's Issue.
In playing The Pool, the traits have different numerical scores, and that leads to a different but not-too-different choice, with similar thematic effects. If I use Bad-ass +2, I get two more dice, but that means I am being a bad-ass to this nice little old lady. And I also have to consider the difference between that +2 and the +1 I'd get from the Cute Alien Sidekick, especially if there are no GM's Gift dice in the current conflict. What I'm saying is that Pool characters often have tacit "issues" built into their brief character sheets, which becomes most apparent when the character has seemingly-contradictory traits, and when the traits differ in their values.
What makes all of these most interesting are (a) they don't describe everything about the character (e.g. I could choose not to use any Traits and still be able to do stuff), and (b) you can't stack them. It's actually a big deal in The Pool and PTA that you have to choose which trait you're employing - that means that you're deliberately not choosing one of the others, and that can matter greatly both in terms of actual consequence and in more abstract judgmental terms. It doesn't matter if you can imagine all of your traits being relevant to the current situation; you still have to choose.
Now that I think about it, one thing that turns me off to certain systems is differing from either (a) or (b), for much the same reasons that you're describing.
Best, Ron
jburneko:
Rules Quibble:
You're right about not stacking Traits in The Pool and that's an interesting observation of what it means to have to choose between them.
Are you SURE that's true in Primetime Adventures? I've never played that way. I thought Edges/Connections could be stacked?
Jesse
Georgios Panagiotidis:
This might not be a "functional" way of using traits, but it's how I've approached them in PTA and DitV at least.
Basically, I don't look at traits only as a mechanical means of encouraging players to generate more content/colour. I rather see them as an extension of the character concept. In PTA for example you have your concept "maverick cop", but the traits "loyal to the end", "insecure with the opposite sex" and "Lisa, neighbour and best friend" would bring a vague stereotype of a character into sharper focus. I look at traits as the main narrative building blocks of who and what your character is. Not the motor that generates new ideas.
It's why you gain traits in DitV as you rack up experience. Your character becomes more pronounced and multi-facetted. In PTA I'd replace certain traits after a while, if there is enough reason for the character to have grown and changed during the course of a season. (I think it's mentioned in the book as well, but I might be wrong.) This use of traits adds colour to the narrative, but doesn't drive character development. And really, if you manage to phrase your traits right, you can use it in all kinds of situations, before it starts to feel repetitive.
Ron Edwards:
Actually, I'm not sure whether that's the case in PTA. I need to trot back to the rules to check. (Too ... many ... games in head!)
Best, Ron
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