the preservation of antagonism
Paul T:
I started reading this thread because the topic heading relates to something I am currently discussing with a friend.
Upon reading it, it seems to be about something only tangentially related to the issue I'm discussing (despite the topic heading), so I'll start a different AP thread about that (look out for [Land of Nodd] in the title). It's about "antagonism" (as a counterpoint to your conception of protagonism) as opposed to the "antagonists" and their survival.
However, I do have two comments. Both have been hinted at already:
1. I don't know if this lines up with your #4, Paul, but I think it does: there are many settings which are clearly written in such a way that total, complete victory for the protagonists is not a possibility. A good example might be the world of "The Matrix" (from a certain point of view, anyway), as well as some versions of D&D ("point of light" surrounded by infinite lands of danger), Cthulhu-type stories, many zombie horror movies or apocalyptic settings, etc.
We know, just from seeing the setting and the premise (little "p"), that we do not expect the heroes to overcome the adversity of the wide world around them. Unlike the Lord of the Rings, the little guys don't have a chance to change the state of the world. It's already built-in: there will always be more monsters, or the Evil Emperor is so far out of reach that we can't confront him meaningfully, or the zombie infestation has spread over the whole globe, so we can only hope to salvage our own survivial, not change the evil that threatens the world. Another example might be Grey Ranks: we're pretty sure that the stories of our protagonists are not going to be about them overthrowing the Nazi threat as a whole. So, we know from the beginning that the larger-scale antagonism will never disappear.
2. It would be interesting to see a system where players in some way demonstrate their interest in particular antagonists, and that interest translates into in-game bonuses for those antagonists--maybe they become more effective, or merely harder to kill. Are there any systems out there that do this?
soundmasterj:
A short one: I made a #2 - kinda game. Each player choses a mission for his character. The mission we played yesterday was: I have to avenge my brothers death by slaying the evil Lord Viggo. Now there are two resolution systems. In play, characters get into conflicts (system 1) where they may earn mission dice. When a player has earned enough mission dice, he may call for initiating the end of his mission (system 2). Here, he rolls his earned mission dice one after another, with each roll narrating how the character comes closer to his goal or how has to retreat a step. When two dice match, he narrates how the character completes the mission (in our case, he finally struck the evil lord dead). If he doesnīt get a match, well, tough luck, the villian escaped (or whatever). Also, there is no other way of completing the mission but with system 2; normale conflict resolution may not result in the missionīs end, and if the mission is killing the evil lord, he is invincible until the endgame is initiated.
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