Independence, Adept Press, and Indie Press Revolution
Meguey:
When Vincent and Ron approached me, on behalf of themselves and the other authors involved in the initial conversation, I had to see the plan and think it through before agreeing to be the fulfilling agent. I needed to know it was something I could fit in around my other work. The question was not 'how to keep Meg busy", but "would Meg be willing to help us with this new idea". Turns out I am.
Ron Edwards:
Hi Simon,
You wrote,
Quote
Vincent's leaving IPR in order to give the new venture a kick start, ensuring that Meg has enough to do.
That's a bizarre and untrue statement. Vincent has posted nothing of the sort, and it doesn't match any statement he's made, or that anyone made at that dinner conversation I posted about above, or any dialogue or posts since then.
Vincent and I decided not to renew our contracts with IPR because the company isn't serving us in the way we want. Or to put it differently, Vincent and I both, among others, have expectations that can't reasonably be met by IPR, that's a fair way way to say it too. That's the flat-out, straightforward issue.
The "new thing" isn't Meg's whim which Vincent is altruistically enabling. It's a project that was conceived by those present at that conversation as something we urgently wanted, and which Meg happens to be willing to do. There isn't any kick-start; that concept does not even apply.
I posted about Key 20 in the linked "New Thing" thread. My until-recently arrangement with IPR and Key 20 was that the former handled my direct-to-customer sales and that the latter handled my distributor/retail sales. I'm pretty satisfied with Key 20 and the retail end of things, and so there's no problem to solve there.
Regarding your financial/ideological choice, I don't see them as separate, although I can say that I'm not aiming at losing sales or money. Nor have I ruled out using more than one venue; that idea was not in any part of my post.
Let me know if I didn't cover all the angles regarding your questions; it was a bit tricky to sort them out.
Best, Ron
Joshua A.C. Newman:
Here are my reasons. (I don't speak for Ron, of course.)
I signed Under the Bed with IPR years ago now, before Shock: was published. It was great. Brennan did a bunch of work that I didn't want to do, and I wanted to participate in an interesting experiment. It was an experiment then, and it continues to be an experiment. The fact that there is a *better* way to pay someone to do what I don't want to do, that's meaningful.
"Independence" is really important to me. I want to do all the parts that are fun to do, from game design to typesetting to illustration and publishing. Talking with people who want to make their games better, taking in feedback to make my designs better. Then there are the logistical parts that I suck at — actually shipping stuff, for instance. I love paying people to do things I can't. It makes me happy. But when paying them is in proportion to my own commercial decisions, that's a closer relationship than I'd like.
There's another problem: when I started wth IPR, there were maybe a couple of dozen products. Now there are hundreds. The bestseller list used to be 20 items long, and now it's 12. The moment I dropped to 13th, I was off the front page for good and my sales dropped through the floor. This has made a situation with which I'm not comfortable: being in competition with Judd for screen time. Being in competition with Eppy for screen time. Being in competition with John Harper for screen time. I like these guys, I like what they do, but that #12 spot is a hot commodity, and I don't want to resent their successes.
If I'd been in 20th position at the start, then gone to 21st (as I'm sure happened) I would have had the same issue. I'm sure someone was in that position.
So I'd like a place where my publications are alongside other, similar things. Other SF games, perhaps, or other games from the Western Massive krewe of designers. Someplace where the room's not too crowded.
(I'm not concerned with keeping Meg busy. If I were, we've got better things to do together. We could be designing costumes and setting for our game right now, for instance. That would be good fun. But fun has to wait, cuz I gotta ship books.)
Pelgrane:
Quote from: Ron Edwards on October 24, 2008, 12:06:08 PM
Hi Simon,
You wrote,
Quote
Vincent's leaving IPR in order to give the new venture a kick start, ensuring that Meg has enough to do.
That's a bizarre and untrue statement. Vincent has posted nothing of the sort, and it doesn't match any statement he's made, or that anyone made at that dinner conversation I posted about above, or any dialogue or posts since then.
Vincent and I decided not to renew our contracts with IPR because the company isn't serving us in the way we want. Or to put it differently, Vincent and I both, among others, have expectations that can't reasonably be met by IPR, that's a fair way way to say it too. That's the flat-out, straightforward issue.
The "new thing" isn't Meg's whim which Vincent is altruistically enabling. It's a project that was conceived by those present at that conversation as something we urgently wanted, and which Meg happens to be willing to do. There isn't any kick-start; that concept does not even apply.
Oh, I must have misinterpreted something that Vincent said in an email. I thought it was quite sensible rather than bizarre, but it's not really relevant. I hadn't thought, suggested or even implied it was Meg's whim.
You can imagine that I didn't make reference to Vincent.I'm sorry I did. I think you've answered that. You aren't leaving IPR to help the new venture get going.
Quote
I posted about Key 20 in the linked "New Thing" thread. My until-recently arrangement with IPR and Key 20 was that the former handled my direct-to-customer sales and that the latter handled my distributor/retail sales. I'm pretty satisfied with Key 20 and the retail end of things, and so there's no problem to solve there.
Regarding your financial/ideological choice, I don't see them as separate, although I can say that I'm not aiming at losing sales or money. Nor have I ruled out using more than one venue; that idea was not in any part of my post.
Let me know if I didn't cover all the angles regarding your questions; it was a bit tricky to sort them out.
So, you are presumably pulling your mail order from Key20, too, on this basis? I'm a little confused as to why you have ideological objections to IPR's business model, and yet embrace sales through a fulfillment house which sells through the three tiers. Perhaps you could enlarge on that. Is there any reason why, if you are happy to make additional sales through a commercial channel at a substantial discount, you might not return to IPR in the future?
I understand the new idea. What I don't understand is why you are leaving IPR? Why are they mutually exclusive?
Pelgrane:
Quote from: Joshua A.C. Newman on October 24, 2008, 12:22:26 PM
Here are my reasons. (I don't speak for Ron, of course.)
So I'd like a place where my publications are alongside other, similar things. Other SF games, perhaps, or other games from the Western Massive krewe of designers. Someplace where the room's not too crowded.
(I'm not concerned with keeping Meg busy. If I were, we've got better things to do together. We could be designing costumes and setting for our game right now, for instance. That would be good fun. But fun has to wait, cuz I gotta ship books.)
I get all this, but I don't understand why this means you are leaving IPR. Do you not think you'll get additional sales through the IPR channel?
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