[Sorcerer] Cascadiapunk post-mortem
Joel P. Shempert:
David,
Quote from: David Berg on December 20, 2008, 07:20:24 PM
I hope Ron's example to me was helpful to you too. It's given me an interesting new way to look at some stuff.
Yeah, it has. Especially the whole "just state what you do, don't try to sell it or push it as fun" principle. While I can definitely approach people who I believe might find a particular game rewarding, I think letting the Reward cycle stand on its own, letting prospective players opt to buy in rather than a more missionary-like approach that can be off-putting. Or, and this just occurred to me, running the risk of your friends agreeing to your proposal because you're so excited about it (after all, they're you're friends, right?), and getting a kind of fake buy-in. That kind of "sure, whatever you say" dynamic is a detriment to true dialog about what players want/enjoy and what they've actually bought into. I think something like this happened with my Sorcerer group.
peace,
-Joel
Joel P. Shempert:
Say, Ron:
I was reviewing the thread and there's a couple of things I'd like to consider exploring, but purely on a conditional, "if you think they're fruitful lines of discussion," basis. If not, then I think I'm ready to put the thread to bed (and start working on a Cascadiapunk one-sheet!).
1) Early on you mentioned,
Quote from: Ron Edwards on December 02, 2008, 10:56:14 AM
I wrote up some of my personal takes on those instances, and then realized it was not right to do so. I wasn't there. And most importantly, dissecting out such an instance and trying to pin down why it was "wrong" or "not fun for me" in that particular case is wasted attention, when the event arose very logically from the lack of buy-in in the first place.
I'd be interested in hearing your thoughts solely from a standpoint of where I handled things poorly as GM, and as they relate to lack of buy-in. Such as, where I missed cues that we weren't all bought in, or hindered/exacerbated the buy-in status. I guess what I'm mostly looking for is greater recognition of buy-in "tells."
I agree that armchair quarterbacking in general isn't productive, much as I'm dying to know what you think, if you "side" with me on various incidents, whatever. But I think my directed query above could have some merit.
2) Are there any observations you'd like to share based on my two play examples? I think they were useful to me just to state and ponder, but since you asked for them I'm wondering if you have anywhere further to take them.
If the answer to both questions is "nada," then I guess I'm done!
peace,
-Joel
JoyWriter:
Hey Melinglor,
I hope you won't wrap things up just yet, as I've been going through your previous posts on this game trying to get a handle on it, seems like a shame to waste that analysis. As a preliminary thing it seems like the players worked quite well when it was just you+them+the setting. I don't have any concrete cause yet, but perhaps the rising complexity or creative conflicts were an issue.
JoyWriter:
Hmm I think I'm going to cut my losses! I haven't really got enough info from the history to make something concrete. I'll leave the stuff I've been thinking about for when I get my Universalis game up and running, which should hopefully be soon.
Joel P. Shempert:
Sounds good. I'll look for it! Sorry I didn't get back to you, but I just haven't been able to muster any further thought on the thread. To move forward (at least for me) the issue needs recontextualizing, like Ron's doing in the Color First Character Creation Project over in the Endeavor forums. to that end, I was going to suggest that you take your observations to an Actual Play thread of your own. Which you're doing, so great! Best of luck, JW.
Peace,
-Joel
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