[Legends of Alyria] The quiet and unquiet dead

[GreatWolf]

Hi Seth,

if they can put you in a place to use it against yourself

How is it determined if your in a place where the trait would work against you? GM determined?

Just like you determine if any other Trait is applicable: by fictional positioning. I don't have my book at hand, so I don't remember if I actually state who has final say over whether or not a Trait applies.

But, a simple example should suffice. Let's say that your guy and my guy are arguing about something, and we take it to dice. I might say, "I'm going to insult him and try to provoke him into saying something that he'll later regret." Then, if I activate your "Bad Temper" Trait against you, everyone would shrug and say, "Sure."

That's all I'm talking about.

[Ron Edwards]

Hi Seth,

The interesting point about that is that it is ... After, rather than Before. I can invoke a Trait of your character's without it having been previously present in the scene. It may not ever have come into play before at all. But I can point to it on your sheet, then adjust the die I want to adjust, and say how it's now come into the fiction - after I've incontrovertibly established it as mechanically relevant.

That's After. Cool, huh? Legends of Alyria has both Before and After Trait use ... and at least empirically in my case, the only time I've seen After usage is when one person invokes a Trait on the other person's sheet.

Best, Ron

[Callan S.]

Are the traits in it defined as before or after? Like if a trait were 'Bad temper', is it preset as being being before or after? Or can you invoke a trait either way? Is there a limit on how often you can invoke one as an after trait? Or is that a bit of a fiddley resource mechanics question (I'll accept that 'There's a limit, but it'd be easier to buy the book to know what it is than explain it even broadly' might have to be the answer)

I'm just surprised if all of them can be used either way - this before/after difference thing seems to be new roleplay technology (I think that name fits) and I'd actually expect a more conservative "Over here are the before traits and over here are the after traits" so as not to confuse them. If they can be invoked either way, that's kind of kinky (I mean that in a good way - ignore if it doesn't make sense)!!

Just to note my own position, I've always seen all traits (and indeed thinks like attacks, or skills) that have been mechanically left open in terms of when they can be activated, as "after" traits. It was always possible to use them in a way that fit into prior narration, thus forfilling any 'before' need (not in exactly the same way, but by and large). However, most roleplayers I've come into contact with would rabidly strongly assert you could only use a trait where it fit the prior narration (ahem, years of this, indeed). Given the actual wording of basically all the texts, that wasn't the case, which always made me think......oops, this 'note' is getting long! I'll leave it there and just wait on the questions :)

[Ron Edwards]

It's kinky! Just as you describe.

Either character's any Trait may be invoked by any player to adjust any die. Presuming for our example two players, each with a character, in opposition to one another, which is the usual situation anyway.

And for some reason, Before usage and After usage are painlessly distinguished from one another. Presuming, again, that I'm not barking up the wrong tree regarding these distinctions in the first place, at least not entirely.

I didn't have any expectations either way, but it's turned out to be very fortuitous that Legends of Alyria happened to be the game in prep and now play when these discussions started.

Best, Ron