Facilitating Coherent Play and the Shared Agenda
Rustin:
My group recently ended its fourth 4e campaign within the last year or so.
I suspect incoherent play caused each attempt to fail. (E.g., People "checking-out" when not spotlighted, lots of talk about WOW, computer use etc..)
We have agreed to meet and discuss what we want out of gaming before we try again.
I'm posting here, asking for advice on how I can facilitate this discussion.
What are good questions to ask?
What are good ways to avoid antagonism?
What are good ways of reflecting back what people say in terms of GNS, without them feeling pigeon holed?
(None of the other players in my group have any familiarity with The Big Model. When I tried, in the past, to use Big Model language they reacted defensively or incredulously or both).
dindenver:
Rusty,
First, don't use GNS terms. Some people have strong feelings about GNS terms and may take an unnecessarily adversarial role if you do.
Second, start by asking everyone to mention one thing they loved from the 4 sessions played so far.
Third, don't come with an agenda, gamers are more socially savvy than a lot of people give them credit for. so, if you try and push your idea of a good game, you will get all kinds of weird resistance.
Combine open-ended questions (what do you like) with directed questions (do you like alignments). No one technique will help you hone in on what you want.
If there is already tension in your group over the perceived level of fun, then avoid allowing anyone to complain about what happened. This will probably only aggravate the situation.
When someone answers, stop and listen to what they have to say. Don't let others interrupt and don't ignore them, even if they go on for a bit. If you want them to engage, you have to give them the space and time to do it on their terms. Also, if someone doesn't feel like their opinion mattered, they may undermine the game (possibly unintentionally).
Also, try and set the tone by stating something like "I feel like we are all having fun. But, if we discuss our games, we might be able to make it more fun" or something like that. Give people an idea where you are coming from, right?
Callan S.:
Hi Rustin,
Have you had some moments in those 4E campaigns or any RP session that were enjoyable, that you could tell us about here? There needs to be an actual play account of some sort anyway as it's like the requirement/door fee for the AP forum.
Rustin:
DinDenver,
Thanks for the reply and suggestions.
Callan S.,
I was hoping after: “Yeah, let’s play a game,” Actual Play had begun, and figured that was enough concrete stuff to say play had started for the requirements for posting. But yeah, let me give you some history, which I think will help. Let me try to answer your question.
As for past play with this particular group (I’ve known members of for over twenty years), there are many moments of fun; too many fun ones to count really.
As for specific fun 4e moments for me:
-One fun combat (me GM, I’m GM in all instances of 4e play) where I pushed them to the limit using table top miniatures, combat on a tower with a bridge and specters attacking. Sort of fun, not super fun, but I used tactics and they used tactics; they gamed the system as did I. It was a good bit of competition; the group against me.
-Last time we discussed how to change up the Campaign, again. We brainstormed together a different setting with an agreement to try more “roleplay” than just go to the dice so quickly. Use more of a vanilla fantasy setting. I was excited after that discussion and found the idea of generating a political situation fun. But that never came to fruition. When I say roleplay, I mean, the Players narrate actions, and they’d trust me as GM to rule what would and wouldn’t happen—almost a karma/drama system.
-The second to last time we discussed a campaign setting, and we came up with ideas of an underworld adventure, with a dragon deep in the depths which dominated the underdark. That was fun for me right after we had nailed down the general color and tone of the game and I began to imagine preparing fun stuff.
Fun stuff beyond the 4e era has a different context. We could play for longer stretches of time, more frequently and I generally did not GM those. Also, this was before WOW. All my players love WOW. I dabble, but don’t really live WOW.
Even still, I think we simply pushed through the problems that we’re having now, back then, with hours and hours of a kind of mostly fruitless, wandering play. But there are moments that are recalled and retold fondly, with great laughter and such.
dindenver:
Rusty,
Two things will be actual barriers though:
1) Players that are not very introspective. In other words: if they haven't thought about it, they may not be able to put to words what is fun for them.
2) Generally, there are certain players that do not like to over-analyze or re-hash their games. There are a variety of good reasons for this, so don't look at it as a blocking maneuver or anything like this. If you think one of your players is like this, try and get them to identify that for you. And then, if that is the case, come up with a method for helping them find a good fit in the group that doesn't force them out of their comfort zone regarding analyzing play.
Basically, there is a group of players that feel that if they analyze play, it takes the magic out of the game. If they stop and analyze why it is their characters always jump to the defense of defenseless women, then it's like spoiling the ending of a movie for them. and still others that want to check their brain at the door. The thing is, these are valid play styles and not unhealthy or counter productive to fun at all. So, you need to find a way to smooth this out without pushing their buttons, right? I'd suggest that for these players, keep all the questions directed (e.g., "X was fun for me, did you like it or hate it?") so they can't misinterpret the reasoning behind the question and then don't share your analysis of their answers with them. But, be extra careful that their answers get rolled up into a bigger summary at the end of your brainstorming session though.
Does that make sense? Either way, I hope it helps.
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