[Sorcerer] Traveller: Holy War
Christopher Kubasik:
By the way... that big post?
It was there as a conversation starter, not an ender.
If anyone wants to comment or has questions, please jump in.
Alan:
I can only agree. Sorcerer (and source Conan) stories are about the character's relationship with themselves and something wierd. On the other hand, Traveller's core ahs always been stories about character's relationship to the vast reaches of the Third Empire.
When you put the two together, you'll have to decide which to focus on. It's like how Shadowrun tried to combine magic and cyberpunk, but play usually turned into a magic setting where some of the magic looked like technology. The core theme of one or the other will dominate. You can't have both.
Myself, if I wanted to play Traveller, I would go with a system that fosters the relationship to the setting--like, well, the standard Traveller rules--or maybe Hero Wars. If I were to play Sorcerer in space I'd go with Sorcerer and leave out references to Traveller--have a space empire background sure, just don't bring in the thematic expectations the word "Traveller" brings with it.
Callan S.:
Hi Christopher,
I'm not sure what to read in it or in what context? In terms of not shuddering, I think when you wrote the post (that was awhile ago, of course), you keep seeing the games proposed content as a choice you have as to whether you engage it. There was a bit in one of the 'prince of nothing' novels where the author notes the army finds what is deadly/the desert a thing of beauty, when they have water. When they had no more water, it became a horrorfying, shuddering ordeal. Atleast back then, you were seeing sorcerer while you thought you had 'water', so it just appears beautiful. Has that changed, since then?
Just as a side note, in terms of the idea of a 'warrior', this clip is illuminating. And yes, I am named after the character (it was that or William, apparently - I think I got the better one)
AnyaTheBlue:
As my friend Mark would say, "We are in agreeance".
More accurately, I think the crux of how we are seeing things differently is this:
Quote
But, for me, that misses the whole point of demons -- Someone is dealing with things that just plain threaten the nature of Humanity. And the moment that happens, that is what the story is about. It is what the story has to be about.
I don't disagree with this statement at all, but I think what you see as using Demons as Tools comes from your view of What Humanity Is and How Demons Threaten it.
I would personally argue that the Third Imperium, and Traveller in general, could support a lot of definitions of 'Humanity' to focus the games upon. It's not just that Demons give you the following abilities. It's "Humanity is X, and Demons may affect it Y".
So, for example, let's say that Antares Veen is a "sorcerer" and his Class S Scout Ship is his Demon. Yes, we've now "reduced" his Demon to a kind of tool.
But that's all Demons ever are. A tool. A way of codifying a certain kind of tradeoff between power and Humanity. But we get to decide what Humanity we're going to focus on just as much as we get to define what Demons are.
In Traveller, characters are frequently skirting the law. Antares Veen may be a very principled guy, but what is he going to have to do to keep his ship in Jump Fuel and Berthing Fees? Look at the Firefly episode "The Train Job", where Mal is put into a position where he can accept a job to keep his ship running which in turn deprives people of medicine. You can't tell me that's not a 'Humanity' challenge, and it's exactly the kind of thing you can do with a Ship as a Demon, and Humanity defined as compassion for others.
What does Antares do when he's visiting a planet with active Slavery. Does he help smuggle people offworld, or not? Does he risk himself, and the freedom his ship gives him, to help people who are in some other position?
Does he accept a merc ticket that puts him on the side of a dictator depriving his population of food?
A Ship as Demon can push you into these kinds of stories pretty easily, I think, and will be both legitimately Traveller and legitimately Sorcerer without having to compromise either.
Which is not to say that you have to play Sorc/Trav this way, or that your Traveller:Holy War is a "bad game", or anything. I just think I see a way to have your cake and eat it too, here, if you structure your game in a certain way.
I think the definition of Humanity is just as crucial to getting the feel of a setting as is what you choose to make the Demons. And you don't necessarily have to have the supernatural on either end of the equation to have something threaten whatever you've defined Humanity as.
IMHO.
Callan S.:
Hi Anya,
I think that may be a missplaced emphasis? In terms of the slavery example, it's not about getting there on a demon ship, it's about whether you would unleash a demon in order to free the slaves? Unleash a demon, of all things? Or put up with continued slavery? It seems the focus isn't on whether Antares risks himself, and instead on how he risks the universe by letting demons into it in order to meet his ends. That's a very different focus - risking yourself is relatively neat and tidy at a moral level (apart from grieving loved ones, one could say). But unleashing a demon into the world? Not so neat, not so tidy.
Just having a ship which happens to be a demon and really only comes into things by transporting you to the next moral issue, rather than being the moral issue - as I understand it, that's not the right emphasis.
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