[Sorcerer] Traveller: Holy War
AnyaTheBlue:
Quote from: Callan S. on January 29, 2009, 03:16:30 PM
Hi Anya,
I think that may be a missplaced emphasis? In terms of the slavery example, it's not about getting there on a demon ship, it's about whether you would unleash a demon in order to free the slaves? Unleash a demon, of all things? Or put up with continued slavery? It seems the focus isn't on whether Antares risks himself, and instead on how he risks the universe by letting demons into it in order to meet his ends. That's a very different focus - risking yourself is relatively neat and tidy at a moral level (apart from grieving loved ones, one could say). But unleashing a demon into the world? Not so neat, not so tidy.
Just having a ship which happens to be a demon and really only comes into things by transporting you to the next moral issue, rather than being the moral issue - as I understand it, that's not the right emphasis.
If you have to do stuff, like take morally reprehensible jobs, to keep your Demon's needs taken care of (fuel, life support, maintenance, etc.), doesn't that put you into Humanity-challenging things, if Humanity has been defined as, basically, *not* being morally reprehensible?
Just because Demons are "challenging the sorcerer's humanity" doesn't mean that they have to be supernatural or evil, is my point.
If you have a billion credits, or don't fly around in your ship, then sure, paying for jump fuel and life support and berthing costs aren't an issue.
But if you have a mortgage on your ship, and you need the ship to operate and to take jobs to pay off that mortgage and operating costs, then the "demon" -- the ship -- is challenging you by providing a constant stress, a need, on the character that the character has to "feed". And providing that feeding doesn't have to be Souls for Arioch. It can just as easily be "here, here's enough money for this month's mortgage and operating costs. Now, steal this baby's medicine for me." If you say no, yay, you're still human, but your ship starts to break down...
I'm kind of sleepy, and am not at my most articulate right now, so it's possible I'm not making my point coherently or I may be missing yours (or Chris').
I think I make sense, though.
AnyaTheBlue:
See here.
Ron Edwards:
Let me remind you all of something.
This thread is about Christopher's game.
Dana, you seem very committed to what Traveller will and will not do, or will or will not be, for you. That's great, and the reminder of the older thread is a fine addition, but if I'm not mistaken, some emotions are entering into your posts, and a focus on what you very deeply feel to be Traveller Sorcerer for you, that isn't what this thread's about.
I'm not sure if people are following the link Christopher posted to his prep thread, but no one can have suffered the agonies of the damned more than he did in trying to figure out exactly what he wanted from the combination of ideas. At the risk of speaking for Christopher, trying to critique that or provide comparisons for him to consider now is not what the thread's about either.
My take on this thread is that it's about what's happening in play, fictionally, and some elements of prepping and reflecting that go into that. Let's stay with that topic.
Callan, I sure like that clip.
Best, Ron
AnyaTheBlue:
Sorry if I've drifted the thread too far from it's original point -- Christopher's game.
I wasn't trying to invalidate Christopher's game structure at all, or to demand that my view of the way Traveller and Sorcerer go together is The One True Way.
Quite the opposite.
To me, it felt a bit like Christopher was saying that this was the best way that he saw the two going together, and I was trying to explain how I thought that different ways of defining things could be equally powerful. It felt to me like he was saying "there is no way to make a Sorcerer Traveller game be both Sorcerer and Traveller at the same time," and I was arguing against it.
Which is really neither here nor there, since he has made a very specific set of choices for his game that are different from the ideas I'm proposing -- choices which are his to make and which I'm sure are resulting in a good play experience for him and his players.
So, Ron, Christopher, everybody, I'm sorry if I seemed to be getting heated. I'm really not! And I'm sorry that I've drifted the focus away from Christopher's specific game and into Traveller theoretical-land, which has been known to swallow whole civilizations...
Christopher Kubasik:
Hi.
First, Ron, thanks for the post. You said pretty much what I was going to say, but said it before I had a chance to log back on.
Second, Anya... I actually have more to say about what you're saying... but I'll be saving it for a thread on the Adapt Press forum.
Third, this thread has sort of spun out of control, so I'll be continuing AP stuff about the game in another thread.
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