New rules for BDTP and Harm
Paul T:
Interesting.
I thought there might be some disagreement over this issue.
My original reading of the rules had indicated that 1-3 Harm only applied within BDtP, but it can be read the other way, as well.
The main reason I brought this up in this thread is because I think it's very relevant:
If you're trying to apply those penalties outside of BDtP, there is a whole lot more to keep track of, and could get tricky. For instance, you must remember whether points of Harm on your sheet have "gone into effect" already or not--has your character suffered those penalty dice yet or not?
Paul T:
And... one more question:
That penalty die from 1-3 level Harm, does it apply to the next action, no matter what, or only if the action is related to the same Pool?
If I take Harm 1 in a foot race, do I get a penalty die when I try to charm the princess after the race?
(I could see it played either way, and happily so, but it also compounds the issue of tracking this stuff.)
oliof:
I think it is very clear in the revised rules?
Quote from: http://tsoy.crngames.com/Resolution#Harm_and_defeat
[...]one to three harm is bruised. This means on your very next ability check, you'll have a penalty die. These add up - if you get bruised twice in a round of Bringing Down the Pain, you'll have two penalty dice. Level four and five harm means your character is bloodied. All your abilities that are associated with the pool that you took the harm from now take a penalty die. If you are bloodied twice in the same pool, you still only take one penalty die. These do not stack. Level six harm means your character is broken. If broken, in order for your character to perform any action, even defense, you must spend a point from the ability's associated pool, and you still receive one penalty die to this action.
For the first 3 levels of Harm, the penalty dice are applied to any follow-up check. Only the penalty dice on levels 4 and 5 are bound to a pool, but they don't stack. The 6th level of Harm makes you pay a pool point for any action AND you get a non-stacking die.
The book-keeping question is interesting, but I don't think it applies very often. IME, players will simply negate single and double penalty dice, and tend to heal lower level harm on the spot. And it's still less to track than conditions in some other games that only affect you in cricumstances (although I would try to consider the penalty dice in the description of an outcome of an ability check).
Bookkeeping for the 1-3 levels is easy: just make a slash when you get the harm level, and turn it into a cross when you use up the penalty die. Someone with Harm at levels 1,2 and 3 who used up their penalty die at level two would have it like this:
PoolLevelEffect_6_5_4I3/I2XV1/
If you have loads of dice, just give people a yellow penalty die for one-off use, and a red one for the more permanent ones on level 4-6 (if you have loads and loads of dice, make it yellow for generic ones and green/blue/red ones for Vigor/Instinct/Reason)
My question would be: Do penalty dice from harm levels 1-3 stack with penalty dice from harm levels 4-6? If not, do you use the harm levels 1-3 for checks not covered by harm levels 4 to 6 or do they disappear as soon as you hit the higher harm levels?
I'm aware that these are edge cases and you'd be better off giving when getting harm on multiple levels in one round/volley of BDtP anyway.
The confusion about harm generating penalty dice outside of BDtP is probably due to the position of the Harm rules in the text. Since failed ability checks outside BDtP can have Harm as a result, I'd say all rules applicable to Harm are also applicable outside BDtP.
Corvus69:
this is what I was talking about harm rules being messy and not very elegant. no one seems to get the rules right! the update is imho neccessary.
and dont forget the shaking down and rewriting the pools next to harm checkboxes.. pain in the ass.
oliof:
I'm all for writing up the current rules cleanly.
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