Establishing Premise in Serenity RPG
mcv:
Quote from: Marshall Burns on February 12, 2009, 04:19:26 PM
MCV, I want so much to say, "Use all the cool setting stuff from your Serenity RPG book (because it is pretty damn cool), and use my game The Rustbelt with the Frontier Suns mod included therein for everything else," because it presents so damn clearly a particular take on the Firefly thing (i.e. my particular take on the coolest, most cutting Premise that can be derived from it), with a built-to-specs system for that take. Because, even if it isn't your take, or a take you like, I think you'd find it helpful. But the damned thing isn't ready yet. That, and I'd look like a self-promoting ass.
Well, if you need a proof reader, I'm volunteering. I'm very interested.
sirogit:
I never -played- the Serenity RPG, but I did create a character and read the rulebook with the intention of drifting it Story Now.
While the setting has awesome potential for addressing premises, and the book mentions a few of these premises in passing, I don't think there's much in the rules that I would want to steal for narrativist purposes.
To start off, the game puts a lot of emphasis on "Then the GM decides what is best." This can be extremely obstructive to addressing premises, such as the concept of "How much of a team player/rat bastard can I be?" - The rules explicitly states that the GM decides how much the character must be adhering to a team - and thus there is no question about it by the time we get to play, because the GM has already decided it pre-play. I would say that the rules imply that however much of a team player you've established your character to be is an informal contract with the GM, which means it can't be dynamic and change in response to meaningful game events - That premise, as a component of story that is composed in the moment, is effectively dead in the water.
Like most trad game systems, the disadvantage system is the most tempting to the story-now-drifter. Especially with a few key disadvantages like Secret. But Secret is pretty much drowned out in a sea of very generic disadvantages I'd be hard pressed to try to squeeze story out of, like being mildly whacky or antisocial. This more or less defeats the plot point mechanic as a meaningful story engine, as people aren't as likely to be getting brownie points for revealing secrets as they are for having a bum leg or being mildly irriatating or whatever.
I wouldn't peg it as impossible to drift the -game rules- in a Story Now direction, but I don't really see the benefit of doing so compared to just using the setting in combination of a game that is already a decent fiction engine.
- Sean Musgrave
JB:
I'd personally still like to take Serenity RPG apart and see what we could change to better facilitate Story Now. Even if there are better vehicles out there, in terms of setting and mechanics both, I think it might be educational and illustrative both for understanding the big model and as an exercise in game (re)design.
Trevis Martin:
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Some of my players might answer up front: "Not a lot, really." or: "If there's profit in it." which is of course something that needs to be prevented. The up front part, at least. If during play they decide that being a good guy is just too hard in this setting, then I suppose that's their answer. Then I need to lower the bar, to figure out how low their standards for being a good guy really are. (a).
Right on.
My instinct on this is to say that it's totally okay for them to answer it up front. The story of the game isn't formed only by the question and the answer, but by the question, the answer (which is the sum total of the characters actions in the overall situation) and the consequences of the answer. In fact, that is really the way the question is answered. The player has the character take a position through action (maybe consistantly, maybe not), and the consequences roll out and we discover the pay off together.
I guess I mean to say that answering it isn't as simple as just saying "if there's profit in it."
mcv:
Quote from: sirogit on February 12, 2009, 08:57:15 PM
To start off, the game puts a lot of emphasis on "Then the GM decides what is best." This can be extremely obstructive to addressing premises, such as the concept of "How much of a team player/rat bastard can I be?" - The rules explicitly states that the GM decides how much the character must be adhering to a team - and thus there is no question about it by the time we get to play, because the GM has already decided it pre-play.
That's true, but then again, it's only words, not integral part of the system. Lots of RPGs have crappy descriptions of how the GM should act, and I usually ignore it unless it fits what I'm looking for. On the other hand, I think I do want the characters to be part of a team. On a ship together, and doing some thing. But some group dynamic with a bit of tension would be nice.
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I would say that the rules imply that however much of a team player you've established your character to be is an informal contract with the GM, which means it can't be dynamic and change in response to meaningful game events - That premise, as a component of story that is composed in the moment, is effectively dead in the water.
Of course there are other premises you could focus on if you don't want to focus on loyalty, but if you want to do justice to the TV show, then loyalty should certainly be an issue. (Although with the exception of Jayne, most characters seem to have a surprus of loyalty, rather than a shortage.)
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Like most trad game systems, the disadvantage system is the most tempting to the story-now-drifter. Especially with a few key disadvantages like Secret. But Secret is pretty much drowned out in a sea of very generic disadvantages I'd be hard pressed to try to squeeze story out of, like being mildly whacky or antisocial.
Now that I've got my mind into a Story Now mode, I'm not so sure I like the disadvantages so much anymore. Just like with a Loyalty stat, it sounds like you're forcing certain decisions on the players and taking away their freedom. On the other hand, the majority of Serenity's Complications don't seem to have the forcing aspect that GURPS Disadvantages have. In GURPS, you have to roll Will to act against mental disadvantages, in Serenity, you get Plot Points for acting in accordance to your Complications. But if you don't need Plot Points, you're basically free to act.
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This more or less defeats the plot point mechanic as a meaningful story engine, as people aren't as likely to be getting brownie points for revealing secrets as they are for having a bum leg or being mildly irriatating or whatever.
I'd definitely award Plot Points for conflicts that seem to reveal or suggest something about someone's Secret. Take all those "Why does a priest know so much about crime/kneecapping/etc?" moments in the TV show. If you've got a Secret, playing up the mystery gets you plot points in my book.
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I wouldn't peg it as impossible to drift the -game rules- in a Story Now direction, but I don't really see the benefit of doing so compared to just using the setting in combination of a game that is already a decent fiction engine.
I admit my main reason for it is that I don't know of any game rules with a Story Now direction. Of all the Story Now systems mentioned in various places, Zero is the only one I know, and I don't see any clear Premise addressing in the rules itself. As far as I can tell, it's only the settin, and I'm not even all that sure about that (but that's a topic for another thread). I did get the impression that perhaps Serenity was slightly more aimed at Story Now, but I could easily be wrong about that.
Of course the real problem is that I don't have any experience with Story Now yet. I'm trying to cobble together what it should look like in these two threads, but some practical examples would help a lot. I've suggested that the guy in my group who originally suggested we try Narrativism should GM a game of Dogs In The Vineyard or something like that. Something not too wacky, still recognisable as an RPG, but with direct focus on premise. From what little I've read, Dogs In The Vineyard, HeroQuest and Sorceror sound most attractive for that purpose.
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