[Trollbabe] Keep on Rockin' in the Troll World
Paul T:
James,
That's a great summary!
We also had a very children's film kind of ending (and I mean this in the best way), where the Trollbabes sentenced Wirresprocket and Gantwood to repair the damage done to the humans' village, and established peace between the two villages.
One minor correction which may or may not be important: I'm pretty sure that Thora getting free from Asgerd was a Fighting + Social conflict, was it not? And I seem to remember Thora initiating a conflict to keep Gantwood from hurting the humans in there, as well, and failing (she fell into the river, and Gantwood tore some human's arm off). Or am I mixing two things up? Anyway, it's probably not too important.
Also, does "Minor-Medium-Major" indicate the Pace of each conflict?
Ron Edwards:
Hi guys,
I am torn again, because the new text is extremely focused on these issues - exactly how to utilize the Stakes, the events so far, and scene framing techniques. Not, I stress, to "keep the story on track," but to provide the circumstances such that whatever happens, it's a story.
Dave, I can see where the anticipation of less fun might come from if the trollbabes crash and burn, and if the Stakes get settled by the GM more or less on his own ... but no, it's not less fun. I can't say the current text literally teaches you how to do that, but the new text does. I mean, with diagrams, circles & arrows and examples. (All my new examples are based on actual play, by the way, no exceptions or massaging.)
Anyway, you guys don't have the new text, so I'm not sure how constructive I'm being in telling you this. Only, if you would, go ahead and try it next time and
Finally, deprotagonizing and failure ... well, it's hard to detach the two, but it can be done. Since you have the narration rights over the circumstances of most failure, it's worth considering that this is a crucial aspect of play. Sometimes I get the idea that we can all easily visualize our characters being our characters when they succeed, but less so when they fail. (This, despite our favorite comics and film and other genre heroes being stomped to dogshit all the time.) So it might be worth considering that if and when you play Trollbabe, her local failures in individual conflicts as well as her overall failures in larger terms are part of her as your heroic character. Preserving her hero-ness by putting her "value" into the circumstances of success is not really going into the darker, wilder territory of this kind of fantasy, I think.
It might help to think of a total bummer scenario, in terms of the impact on other people (and independent of the Stakes, possibly), as a prequel to the next adventure.
It also might help to think of the Stakes as not being defined as "trollbabe succeeds, trollbabe fails." For instance, if the Stakes are something like "the girl lives or the girl dies," then one of the two will happen - through whatever confluence of effects or events affected by the presence of the trollbabe in the situation. It does not mean that the scenario is "trollbabe saves the girl, trollbabe tries and fails to save the girl."
I hope this is useful advice and not a "you done it wrong" accusation. I'm harping on it because, well, I've corresponded with all of you about actual play for quite a long time now, to a great depth. I think this issue is important for you not merely in terms of Trollbabe, but in terms of Story Now as a general thing.
Best, Ron
David Berg:
Quote from: James_Nostack on March 10, 2009, 05:58:35 PM
Dave, there was certainly a fail condition in the scenario: Mollywort marries Wirresprocket and together they agree to "adopt" Gantwood, driving him into madness to the point where he completely loses it and gets killed.
Oh, sweet. That's actually quite thematically satisfying.
Was that all you, or did the TB instructions help you craft that?
Ron,
All of your points make sense to me. I think it's simply that, after a long enough play history of hit-and-miss fun with "let the GM handle everything for this segment of the narrative", I have a minor inclination to avoid that if possible, until the particular GM shows me that I'm in good hands.
I suspect the disred result here is that I trust the game to handle this particular part of the narrative, and the game will help the GM reliably come up with cool shit like James did. In a fair world, of course, the player just trusts that the game will work without requiring "prove it", much as with non-RPG games. In the real world, though, I think some degree of explicit expectation-setting and procedural transparency might have helped me get out of my own way.
Like, if the rules instructed James to tell us, "This situation will wrap up in a way that, assuming you have any interest in the premise and theme involved, will be cool... even if both Trollbabes are killed! This is hard-coded, and doesn't rely on me to be a genius!" That would have informed me to play differently.
Whether this is mere procedural clarity or a step in an impossible fool's errand of hand-holding, I have no idea.
I'm glad that the next edition will include more teaching text and diagrams. I love that stuff.
Your post got cut off here:
Quote from: Ron Edwards on March 10, 2009, 08:33:29 PM
Anyway, you guys don't have the new text, so I'm not sure how constructive I'm being in telling you this. Only, if you would, go ahead and try it next time and
Nice cliffhanger moment. :)
Ps,
-David
David Berg:
Quote from: David Berg on March 11, 2009, 11:15:20 AM
I suspect the disred result here
the DESIRED result
David Berg:
Quote from: Ron Edwards on March 10, 2009, 08:33:29 PM
Since you have the narration rights over the circumstances of most failure, it's worth considering that this is a crucial aspect of play.
This definitely caught my attention. And it came up once or twice in our game.
However... I got plenty of chances to contribute to "where the story goes" via announcing character intentions and actions (which is what I'm used to when not GMing). Plus, I had the creative outlet of throwing suggestions at James when some part of the setting called for fleshing out. So, "the mechanics say I win narration rights" didn't strike me as being as big a deal as perhaps it was supposed to. Accordingly, I might not have taken full advantage of the opportunity to make strong contributions to the story's direction, tone, theme, etc.
If I remember right, Paul and I used our failure narrations mostly to apply color to the failure, and not too much beyond that.
Not sure if there's a takeaway beyond the fact that I'm a noob to Story Now play.
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