[IAWA] My ONYFDA Question
Ouroboros:
Quote from: Brand_Robins on April 12, 2009, 09:12:34 AM
The way I've taken to explaining it these days is "if you aren't interested in the other person having a choice, and what you are doing to them could legitimately leave them injured or exhausted, then you can force dice. If you want them to have a choice, or if you can't injure or exhaust them, then you shouldn't be rolling."
This makes a ton of sense. I found that our group was coming up with things that were obviously conflicts but that had nothing to do with physical fighting at all. Getting into all those gray areas, I was finding it difficult to mediate these conflicts, because the rules seem to want you to escalate to violence to have an actual conflict with dice. But, then in the example conflicts, even the first one where the girl didn't want to be seen amongst the horsemen, there was no fighting involved. That had me pretty stumped till I read this thread. I'd have to agree with you Brand, this seems like a good way to settle it, even if its not implicit in the rules.
Read my thread, and see what you guys think about the d6 advantage die and other things that happened in our games so far! I'd like to hear opinions from people down in the lumpley forums too. http://www.indie-rpgs.com/forum/index.php?topic=27480.0
Thomas Lawrence:
Jim, I think you have the right idea. Possession and other kinds of magical mind control counts as a concrete action. As always, you don't necessarily get what you want even you lose a conflict - they loser has to admit your action (the passions were inflamed) but not the consequence (moves put on Taije).
Also, I LOVE the idea that he'd take exhaustion from all-night masturbation, that's hilarious.
Persuasion as a power is more dangerous. At some point I think a line has to be drawn between something that either does or does not override free will in some sense. If it does, it can count as a special ability that could be used in conflicts, although of course you can still be resisted. If it isn't, then you're just saying your character's quite charismatic and so forth, then I guess you just have to act that out in character, and other characters will either be persuaded by you or not as makes sense to their players and the fiction up to this point.
Lance D. Allen:
Brand,
Absolutely, it needs to go farther than "I convince him." I was simplifying. In play, you'd describe what you're doing to convince him, but the end result is that you do convince him. If someone objects to that, you go to dice.
"I spend the next hour laying down my points in flawless logic, bewildering him just a bit, and in the end he agrees because obviously I've put far more thought into it than he has. Besides, I've always had the best interests of the realm at heart, haven't I?" Follow this up with a malicious grin.
"The hell he does! He may trust your character more than most, but he doesn't trust anyone very far."
"Alright, well, then he's convinced to at least begin the necessary preparations, though he'll consider the implications further... With my willing input on the matter, of course."
"Not even that. He doesn't trust anyone that much."
"Fine. I'll MAKE him see my point." And the dice come out.
Now, I should point out I've never read the text, and I've only played the game once (although I rather enjoyed it) so it's possible that there's something I'm missing that makes my position problematic or untenable. I'm working from discussions about the game and my memory of that one session. However, with that basis, a purely unsupernatural ability to convince seems like it should work just fine like that.
jburneko:
Everything that has been said is good but I'll add my own take.
There are not *persuasion* mechanics in IAWA. That's not the same thing as there are no Social Conflict mechanics. As such I don't think, "I convince him of X" is enough if the idea is that the character persuades another character of something on its own merits. Basically, if the character X is not attempting to rob character Y of his free will in some manner then no dice can come out.
As such I find the concept of "weapon" useful. The dice come out in IAWA when someone tries to use a weapon and there are lots of social weapons. In the example originally quoted the spirits is using his magic of "inflaming passions" as a weapon.
"I bribe you." - weapon.
"I expose you as a coward in front of the king" - weapon.
"I make veiled threats against your daughter." - weapon.
These are still a little too vague but with the context of actual play its trivial to attach the necessary details.
As soon as you attempt to rob the other person of free choice in the matter with a weapon, dice are rolled.
Jesse
lumpley:
Yep.
I think everybody's covered everything I'd say. Jim, how's it seem to you?
-Vincent
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