Rule interpretation
Ron Edwards:
Oh yeah,
Tony, you wrote,
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Number 6 raises a question that has been raised on here recently. Where does it say that if you have 0 dice, you roll one, with your opponent getting an extra die? I never did find that in the main book.
It's "there" in the way that a lot of Sorcerer rules are there - at the intersection of other more explicitly-stated rules. It's explicit that you must roll dice to resolve conflicts. The currency is also explicit. Putting those together, the conclusion can only be as you've written.
I agree that it's unlikely for a reader to understand this right out of the box, and I'm not saying anyone obviously should. As a technical point, though, it's not an add-on to the rules in the sense of errata.
The annoying thing is that I was probably only one more read-through and edit-through away from getting it in, as indicated by the error in the combat example, when I forgot to apply the one-die penalty against Fragg (due to the thug's damage) to the next thug's defense. If I'd been "on" enough to correct that, I betcha I would have clarified similar currency points throughout the text.
Best, Ron
Neon White:
Ron, thanks once more for all of your answers to my questions earlier. Do you mind if I pose a few more that I have been turning over in my mind?
1) Can you please confirm my understanding of the cost vs. duration of the various Demonic powers:
* Armor
* Big
* Fast
* Protection
* Shadow
* Shapeshift
* Vitality
* Hold
All of the above are activated once at the start of a scene/conflict/combat and last for the duration of that scene/conflict/combat. Hold can be broken if opposed successfully, or strengthened through further applications.
All of the above (including hold) can also be dropped/cancelled by the user and also by the demon should either wish to do so. To cancel such a power once activated is a typical action (similar to any other action in combat) and is usually uncontested (roll Demon’s power if it is important for purposes of initiative, otherwise no roll needed).
Also, if the demon wants to end the use of a conferred power (i.e. user is sorcerer) against the will of the sorceror then it calls for an opposed will roll.
Is all of this accurate?
2) Sorcery on the fly.
Can it be done in a minute? A second? 5 minutes? What is the recommended minimum time to get the ability to try the ritual, even if only at a single die? Probably instantaneous right? However the cost of humanity is a big risk?
What about banishing then? Where there is humanity upside, not downside risk. Is an ‘on-the-fly’ banishing a viable action to perform during a combat round?
3) Demons summoned but not into a prep-prepared contain.
Will they hang around for the binding, attack, flee? Given they want to be bound, is that enough to keep them in line or at least in the vicinity? If you proceed straight into the binding after the summoning, does that keep them in line?
4) Score descriptions – are they fixed or not.
Switching tacks a little here.A few things I have read here on the Forge suggest that the list ought to be quite constrained and perhaps limited to those on offer in the main book + supplements. They seem quite limited to me and I instinctively want to expand them, however I am wary of doing so in an ill-considered way. Allowing player suggestions seems to invite exploitation (Will description: ‘Incredibly lucky’… ok so it doesn’t really fit, but you can see how players might seek to make it as open ended as possible so as to call upon the extra die for as many occasions as possible).
5) Surprise
The announcement phase allows adjustment of actions. What happens when a new character enters the fray unbeknownst to the characters (inconspicuous demon or whatever). How is the element of surprise handled? Are players allowed to target the newly entering character before their characters are aware of the threat? (I suspect the answer is ‘no’ and they have to wait until the hostile character’s presence is known to the player character).
6) Binding Rolls
The outcome of demon binding rolls is supposed to be rolled in secret by the GM, but how does one do so when dice rolled are on the table. Players will work it out pretty quickly.
7) Score descriptions
Do demons and other NPCs have score descriptions and can they call upon them as player characters do?
Once again, any input would be appreciated!
Adam
Ron Edwards:
Hi Adam,
Me = little Dutch boy: "That ought to do it. I can take my finger out of this hole and go home now." And then ...
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1) Can you please confirm my understanding of the cost vs. duration of the various Demonic powers:
...
Is all of this accurate?
All except for this:
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Also, if the demon wants to end the use of a conferred power (i.e. user is sorcerer) against the will of the sorceror then it calls for an opposed will roll.
The demon always, always has total control over the ultimate availability of an ability. If it's the user, then that's easy; but if it confers the ability to another, then it still holds the circuit-breaker. If it says "off," the ability is off. It can do this at will at any time (or if in a complex conflict, upon its action).
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2) Sorcery on the fly.
...
Any sorcerous ritual carried out as a snapshot may be treated as a single action if it's in a complex conflict.
Out of a complex conflict, if someone wants to do a ritual in less than an hour, it's still treated as a snapshot mechanically.
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3) Demons summoned but not into a prep-prepared contain.
Will they hang around for the binding, attack, flee? Given they want to be bound, is that enough to keep them in line or at least in the vicinity? If you proceed straight into the binding after the summoning, does that keep them in line?
Depends on the demon. You play the demon, especially its attitude and actions when summoned but not yet bound. No book can tell you what to do with the demons you play. I don't make'em up for you.
I suggest that you not assume a summoned but unbound demon is a raving carnivorous mindless fiend. If you want them to be, then well and good, but the decision is yours.
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4) Score descriptions – are they fixed or not.
Switching tacks a little here.A few things I have read here on the Forge suggest that the list ought to be quite constrained and perhaps limited to those on offer in the main book + supplements. They seem quite limited to me and I instinctively want to expand them, however I am wary of doing so in an ill-considered way. Allowing player suggestions seems to invite exploitation (Will description: ‘Incredibly lucky’… ok so it doesn’t really fit, but you can see how players might seek to make it as open ended as possible so as to call upon the extra die for as many occasions as possible).
Stay constrained. A given play-experience of Sorcerer should work from a fixed list.
The list can be one of those found in the books (the core book list is especially brutally and extensively playtested, and I recommend it), or you can make it yourself. Some of the discussions here about making such lists are pretty good, as you can see from my and others' comments what kind of standards should apply.
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5) Surprise
The announcement phase allows adjustment of actions. What happens when a new character enters the fray unbeknownst to the characters (inconspicuous demon or whatever). How is the element of surprise handled? Are players allowed to target the newly entering character before their characters are aware of the threat? (I suspect the answer is ‘no’ and they have to wait until the hostile character’s presence is known to the player character).
When you as GM, during the announcement phase, announce that the new character has entered, that does not mean that all the characters suddenly know about it. Players can announce actions which do respond to the new character - and when the dice hit the table, if the new character goes before them, that means that they were surprised and hence their actions are not particularly advantaged.
You'll find that in all cases, the system accounts for surprised/not-surprised by looking at what happens with the dice, and that includes finalizing whether characters "noticed" the new character in time to do anything about it. So it's perfectly all right for the announcement phase to include reactions as if the player-characters noticed the new character.
See [Sorcerer] Effects of Perception for some more discussion.
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6) Binding Rolls
The outcome of demon binding rolls is supposed to be rolled in secret by the GM, but how does one do so when dice rolled are on the table. Players will work it out pretty quickly.
We've talked about this a few times in the forum but the better threads are eluding me. The answer is that "secret" isn't sacred. I typically roll them openly and simply don't announce them out loud. If anyone wants to look, they can.
To stay completely textual, roll them and say "don't look." That's OK too. However, bear in mind that the book doesn't say you must keep the information unknown. Clearly, once the Binding strength starts operating as a source of bonus dice, the players will get the idea of who has the upper hand. That's not a problem; you can merely let that understanding develop.
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7) Score descriptions
Do demons and other NPCs have score descriptions and can they call upon them as player characters do?
Demons do not. Other NPCs do if you want them to.
What exactly do you mean by "call upon descriptors?"
This thread might help a little bit when discussing descriptors: [Sorcerer] Three things I need to understand.
I do enjoy answering questions about the game, so please feel free, despite my teasing.
Best, Ron
Neon White:
Ron, thanks for your answers. I'm glad to see that I was on track with much of my thinking.
I note your comment about not assuming that unbound demons are raving carnivorous and mindless fiends. This also accords with my thinking.
I've now done quite a bit of reading here at the Forge about score descriptions (or is it descriptors? I see both in use) and I think I now understand why you recommend the list be constrained to a set of choices that collectively and separately fit the setting. As someone else put it, they also collectively answer the question 'what is a Sorcerer' for a given game.
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