At the roots of roleplaying
Ron Edwards:
Rob,
Please post an example of real people playing a real game. I say this in order to help you make your point. It's also a requirement for this sort of discussion at the Forge. Without it, we can't continue.
Everyone else, please do not post until Rob has done this.
Best, Ron
rgrassi:
It takes a while... but I'm preparing it.
It's an example from a Play By Forum.
Hope it's ok.
Rob
Ron Edwards:
That's great, Rob, thanks! Looking foward to a good discussion.
Best, Ron
rgrassi:
Here's an example from a current game session, but I think that similar examples may be taken from many games of yours. We're three players (I, Mauro, Glenda). I'll not go into much details about 'technicalities of the game system', because I don't think they really matter, for this discussion, and will report only what's interesting for the focus of discussion.
What's in the fiction?
There's a young woman that has been forced into a mission because "the evil one" has kidnapped her mother. She drove a little plane toward a valley and there's been an incident forcing her to land with some troubles. The plane is now useless, but for a matter of luck she has a look in the distance and sees their mother kidnapped by the guerrillas. Some guerrillas (working for "the evil one") have seen the plane wreck and get near the plane to have a look. The young woman succeeds to hide. The guerrillas get back to their previous path, open a secret passage through rocks and steps in.
Here's an in-game example of what I'm saying.
Mauro (acting as a GM, which means that assigns the characters to the players and asks for the interaction to be done), for this scene and for this interaction turn, takes the young girl and all the other fictional elements. Also, he doesn't specify a decision method, meaning that we must agree upon every 'conflict'I, for this scene and for this interaction turn, have to move the guerrillas.Glenda takes the mother.
What I transcript now is the cross-reference between the actual play and the steps I've talked before. I'll map the
statements to Mauro's mind.
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Step 1 [In which players imagine scenes and select the candidate move] [Domain: Personal Imagined Space]
[No factual evidence for A, it's just a personal assumption. For B I'm just referring what I was thinking.]
A) Mauro imagines in his "Personal Imagined Space" that the girl may enter in the door before its closure AND that she hides to the guerrillas. He has a personal flavour of what is plausible in the current imagined scene.B) I'm imagining, in my "Personal Imagined Space" that the guerrillas have just entered the door." I've a personal flavour of what is plausible in the current imagined scene.
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Step 2 [In which players explicitly declare the event that they'd like to have place in the fictional world] [Domains:
Personal Imagined Space and Unvalidated Imagined Space]
Mauro says:
"I'd like the fact of Cassandra trying to sneak in before the door in the rock closes; if you don't mind. Need a check? It
also matters how much near are the guerrillas before the door closes; and this is influenced by Rob (Note: because I'm moving the guerrillas and only I know where they are with respect the door)."
The first check is made:
2a) Is this plausible?
I say: "To me, it's impossible that cassandra sneaks in without being seen." But, at the beginning of the game, we've decided that nothing will be imposed by the decision of a single player. So, I say that this must have at least one probability to be done.
So, we move to (2b) and I say:
"It may have a very very low probability of success."
The move enters into an "Unvalidated Imagined Space". If it passes it will be inserted into the SIS.
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Step 3 [In which players negotiate on the unvalidated moves] [Domains: Unvalidated Imagined Space and the SIS]
Rob says:
"But I'd ask a 18 roll with a 3d6. OR, I may accept that Cassandra sneaks in but she's arrested."
Mauro says...
"Mmm... Thinking about it. Not able to write a convincing scene with Cassandra being arrested and I don't like the idea to be leaved outside the secret passage."
Rob:
"If you want to try to make something while she's arrested you just have to declare it and we'll talk about it."
Mauro takes sometime and tries to resolve the scene, asking for agreement. [Note that other fictional elements are added into the Unvalidated Imagined Space]
"I have'nt found a convincing way to tell about the girl arrested, so I just didn't narrate it :P. Tell me if you both agree."
"Beyond the opening, Cassandra noted some boxes; they could have been useful to hide, if only she was able to enter without being noticed. As soon as guerrillas were out of sight, she rapidly moved toward the entrance; just two meters before the door she had to move unhidden. She made a rapid move and passed under the door, hiding behind the boxes and looking around to be sure not to be noticed, taking a dee breath.
In the control room, one of the guards looked the senator: 'Sir, there's an intrusion. Screen n.2'."
Note how much the move has changed during the transition from the Personal Space through the Validation Space.
I and Glenda agree about all the fictional details.
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Step 4 [In which the validated moves enter the SIS and the players update their Personal Imagined Space] [Domains: SIS and Personal Imagined Space]
The SIS is updated with the relevant information using only what has been EXPLICITLY SAID and AGREED. Every player maps what's happened and updates his/her Personal Space, fillng the gaps (i.e. what has not been explicitly said and what was intended or thinking as obvious) with personal information... (where exactly is Cassandra behind the boxes? where exactly are the guards?)
The wheel is ready to make another roll.
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Your turn... :)
Very important concepts, to me, are the existence of different imagination spaces and only one of them is really "shared".
Rob
Ron Edwards:
Hi Rob,
Thanks for the account.
I don't see any of your statements as controversial nor, actually, as especially interesting. The only part which concerns the functionality of play is how input of any kind is validated as (into?) the SIS. According to the ideas debated and assembled at this site, however that is done is called "system."
In your account, that's a distinct step during which interaction among the participants, usage of various game mechanics, and a group embrace of what might be described as "this happened, what happens next." That seems to me to be what happens during any and all role-playing. In my essays, I called it (or rather adapted a pre-existing term) "Exploration." System is how Exploration, or SIS which is a near-synonym, changes in fictional time.
Is there some way in which you think what you are saying disagrees with the body of ideas here at the Forge?
What are you saying which seems contentious or worthy of discussion?
Best, Ron
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