At the roots of roleplaying
rgrassi:
I see your point contracycle. Anyway, I think that it's the field over which System works. And it's the space delegated to check for any 'unconsistency' that may break the SIS.
Rob
rgrassi:
So far so good. Here's the update of the steps. Hope that Ron will waive again the "No images policy." There should not be changes to images. I'm proposing new images in order to preserve the old as an archive.
Some reply:
Quote
"The shared imagined space is a "real" imagined space. It has content, texture, motion.There is a street, here is an character, over there is a prop. There is Stuff in the SIS. I can, and do, imagine the SIS as a real space - in my minds eye, I can look down its length, see people moving within it, look up at the sky or down at the ground."
Right, but that's your personal view of the SIS.
A "shared imagined space" in physical terms does not really exist.
The only thing that exists are "images" in your personal imagination coming from your interpretation of what has been agreed by the system.
Two players, most probably, will provide different description and representation of a SIS.
Quote
In your "unvalidated" space, there is no stuff. There is merely the proposition of stuff. It does not have content in the same way the SIS does. The unvalidated space contains the maybes, the might-have-beens, the possibly-could-be's.
And are not the "maybes, might-have-been, possibly-could-be" the real reason why players are around the tables and play an rpg? As for the content, it is "filled and emptied out" periodically, like the air in an accordion.
As for the 'observable' things.
Step 2 and Step 3, are observable.
Step 1 and Step 4, are not.
From these steps we derive that:
1) Personal Imagined Space (or Personal Imagination, as wisely suggested by Moreno), as the personal view of the SIS, is by far the most 'tangible', even if subjective, things we've to deal with.
2) Unvalidated Space (and not SIS) may be the 'logical object' to handle the concepts in the definition of System.
My two cents...
Bye,
Rob
[edited by V.Baker to correct image links, at request]
Adam Dray:
This all makes pretty good sense to me. To me, though, it's just new words for IIEE.
Also, I disagree that System first gets involved in moving an idea from Unvalidated to Shared. There is System involved in moving an idea from Personal to Unvalidated. There could be rules, but there are at least social norms (part of System), that govern how and when people communicate their ideas ("My character wants to break the door").
For example, the game Puppetland requires that players speak in the first person ("I break the door"). Since saying it isn't necessarily validation by the group (movement to the SIS), you must grant that System was involved in saying "I break the door."
I will grant, however, that validation can't happen until an idea is communicated. There is no way (short of physically restraining them) to stop someone from adding to the Unvalidated Imagined Space. "Bob breaks the door" would be an invalid contribution to the SIS and to the UIS, so it would be invalid based on System applied retroactively to the movement from Personal to Unvalidated.
rgrassi:
Quote from: Adam Dray on June 30, 2009, 09:16:02 AM
This all makes pretty good sense to me. To me, though, it's just new words for IIEE.
Not so sure, since, if i understand correctly IIEE applies to characters and not to people.
In that sense, IIEE is inside the UIS.
Quote
Also, I disagree that System first gets involved in moving an idea from Unvalidated to Shared.
There's maybe to correct the image in #3. The box is not intended to overlap on PIS. What I think is that System works only in #3 and only on UIS.
Thanks for the constructive reply, hovewer.
Cheers,
Rob
rgrassi:
Sorry Adam, my fault... Looks like you're right with respect IIEE...
From Provisional Glossary v2 [excerpt]
"how actions and events in the imaginary game-world are resolved in terms of (1) real-world announcement and (2) imaginary order of occurrence".
Rob
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