[Solar System] Rules question: Pool refreshment
JMendes:
Hoy, :)
Ah, coolness. That description feels rather close to how we play Pool refreshment in TSoY. For some reason, my brain got all twisted up with the wording in the Solar System and went to a much harder line than I needed to.~:)
Worse yet, as Rogerio aptly pointed out in post-game discussion, some of the limitations I imposed on the characters in a couple of refreshment scenes were actually kind of deprotagonizing for the PCs involved.
One specific example: the character my wife plays is Tornado Belle, the female cowboy (I could say cowgirl but, in my mind, that conjures up images of women in pretty dresses serving up lemonade). She wanted to refresh Vigor and there was a rodeo in town so I suggested she participate, an idea that everyone at the table felt was very fitting. However, once there, I had an NPC from a rival ranch get on her nerves and she wanted to score better in the rodeo than he did. I ruled that she could either refresh the Pool or roll Cowboy(V) against the guy to see who placed better, but not both. At the time, it seemed like a good idea, but now, I'm left wondering if it was.
Thanks for your continued input, by the way, in this thread and the other one. :) They're both turning out to be enlightening conversations.
Cheers,
J.
Eero Tuovinen:
Yeah, it doesn't seem natural to me to disallow conflicts over matters that are on the table as the specific matter of refreshment. So if you're allowing a character to refresh by participating in a competition, but still want to make a conflict out of it (instead of just glossing over the results, for example), then it seems to me that the frivolous conflict is the way refreshment goes down in this instance. The important thing is that the character still considers it a refreshment, something done for play; if she's taking it seriously, then it's no longer a refreshment. For that reason I'd probably draw the line on extended conflict: if you're taking it seriously enough to extend it, I'm not so sure how we could consider it a refreshing situation anymore. The same goes for conflicts that are serious enough to warrant Harm in the stakes.
JMendes:
Ahey, :)
Quote from: Eero Tuovinen on July 22, 2009, 03:23:16 AM
draw the line on extended conflict: [or] conflicts that are serious enough to warrant Harm in the stakes.
That's the line. Makes sense. :)
Cheers,
J.
Ralek:
Quote from: JMendes on July 22, 2009, 12:04:43 PM
Ahey, :)
Quote from: Eero Tuovinen on July 22, 2009, 03:23:16 AM
draw the line on extended conflict: [or] conflicts that are serious enough to warrant Harm in the stakes.
That's the line. Makes sense. :)
Erm... there's really no need to take Eero's statement as a mechanical restriction on pool refreshment. I do believe Eero's statement was meant as a matter of example on how to quantify what is low-key. It seems unnecessary to turn that statement into a hard rule stating that conflicts over the matter of refreshement cannot be extended or have Harm in the stakes. Sure, in almost all situations, extending or putting high stakes in those conflicts is inappropriate, but not because it violates a hard and fast rule that you can't, but because it already goes against the underlying structure of pool refreshement. All you need is a good understanding of what such underlying structure is:
- Pool refreshment is an opportunity for a slow point in the action, as a suitable refreshement scene is not about action or struggle at all.
This means pool refreshment has its place drama-wise and there are points in the narrative where trying to refresh pool would be inappropriate. If the characters just had an intense horseback chase of the villain and finally managed to corner said villain in the farmhouse and are about to barge in and confront him, stopping everything, lighting a fire and telling a few stories before barging in in an attempt to refresh pool is innapropriate. This is not to say that cliffhanger style, low action points in between two high action intense scenes is a bad in and of itself, just that are moments in the narrative where pool refreshment is inappropriate.
- Pool refreshment scenes can have conflict in them as long as the matter of refreshment is not threatned and those conflicts are "low-key".
If the matter of refreshment is the conflict itself it is probably innapropriate. If something is at stake other than the act of refreshment itself you either conflict or refresh. This is a matter of what the character is concerned with and can be hard to determine. A few characters playing poker to enjoy themselves is a suitable refreshment scene, but if one of these characters wants something out of this game, like he wants to win over the horse of one of the other characters, he is threatning the matter of refreshment and he either conflicts or refreshes. Additionally, this conflict requires the permission of the owner of the horse. If the owner of the horse doesn't want to conflict and wants to refresh instead, you're not forcing the conflict down his throat, because if he's just playing as a matter of enjoyment he is not going to put such stakes on such poker game. This is not to say that such conflict would be forbidden. You could try to convince that character (a conflict that falls outside the matter of refreshment) to play the game for high stakes instead and should you manage to convince him, those two characters would no longer be playing for the purpose of pool refreshment. That doesn't invalidate that other characters not involved in this but that are also playing can still refresh their pools as long as these conflicts are considered "low-key". If instead of playing for the horse, you were playing for the one of the lost twelve stones of the Khaleans and possesion of those stones as been a major part of the narrative, this conflict would no longer be considered "low-key" and therefore as a whole, the scene would be innappropriate for pool refreshement. Just as if the young dashing sheriff walking in the saloon and is about to confront the evil outlaw, eyes locking and what not, two characters sitting at a table having a few drinks is an inappropriate pool refresment effort. Contrast that with the young dashing sheriff starting a bar brawl with a nameless drunken tool and despite mechanically, the procedures being very similar, those two characters having a few drinks would, in this new context, be an appropritate pool refreshment effort.
- Pool refreshment scenes should consider two specific narrative motiffs: The character has his guard down and it is a good opportunity to introduce new story elements
During refreshment scenes, characters end up doing foolish things. This is a chance to shake up the character's story in unexpected ways. If you went out partying all night doing hard drugs, you may end up waking up in a strange bed, next to a strange person in a strange part of town. And someone might storm through the door and demand to know what you are doing in his wife's bed. Or, you may be escorting the governor's daughter to the grand ball and in the middle of the dance, in a more heated moment, the two end up locking lips even though you are married and the daughter is engaged to someone else. These events may be used as ways to bring new thematic material to the table where it was lacking, not as ways to direct character behaviour in forced or deprotagonizing ways. You want to know what the character will do in a certain situation, not what the character did. These events should also be negotiated and not forced down, but attention should be made to the motivation behind the negotiation. You shouldn't turn down an event suggestion because it was so unexpected or deviant from what you imagined your character to be. You may want to turn down an event suggestion because the thematic material it presents is something you as a player have no interested in exploring - ie... I don't want to explore issues dealing with infidelity and forbidden love, lets find something else.
Should also be noted that shaking up the character's story in every pool refreshement scene is probably a bad idea. It should be looked up as an opportunity to do so, not as a mandatory structural element to pool refreshement scenes. You should take into account whether or not the character's story actually needs to be shaken up.
This is my understanding of what the underlying structure of pool refreshment is. I wrote it more as a tool to help me understand and verbalize its concepts and not so much as a way of telling anyone what it should be. Feel free to discuss and tell if any of the concepts clash in any way with your own.
-- Rogerio
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[*] Previous page