[d&d4e] Puzzles in RPGs
AzaLiN:
Is anyone else here as big a fan of adventure games as I am? (Monkey Island, Day of the Tentacle, Scratches, Nostradamus...)
I really like puzzles in games; maybe problem solving is a better term, but in adventure games at least, its a puzzle framework. As a DM, I like to include puzzles in my games, whether it be a simple cipher puzzle, interpreting a sketch next to a lever or statue, a riddle, figuring out how to get into a room...
Its challenging though, isn't it? creating and running good puzzles, which in RPGs tend to be more like obstacles, traps, or problems to solve or move past. I know that for sure, a Day of the Tentacle framework for puzzles in a Table Top RPG would fall apart pretty fast, because of the freedom the PCs have- and the power levels.
In your games, what are the best problems or puzzles that you gave to your group, or had given to you by your Game master?
I've found that it works best to just throw obstacles in the way without an obvious solution, and especially no planned solution, and let them go at it, but its a bit of a disorganized and inconsistent approach. Its always interesting seeing how they solve it eventually, and i'm amazed at how certain eventual success is unless I meticulously plan to thwart them. Its pretty cool.
How does everyone else do it? As time goes by, i need more and more new ideas to keep things fresh and non-repetitive. Can anyone present specific examples, or even resources? I'll show you mine if you show me yours ^^
ps: This is a neat little post by the monkey island guy, btw: http://grumpygamer.com/2152210
Ron Edwards:
Hiya,
This topic needs a little more from you first - specifically, one actual puzzle that you actually played. Talk about its details, what happened, what the players did, how hard or easy it was, how it worked relative to the other issues of play, or anything else. I'm not looking for thousands of words, but even a short, solid couple of paragraphs will make this thread work.
Everyone else, hold off from posting, please. The Forge is not a survey site. Others' experiences will be great to read about as well, but for now, right now, the thread author must provide an account of actual play.
Best, Ron
AzaLiN:
That make sense.
1: There was the first cipher I made, a while back: There was a piece of parchment with about 5 lines like in hangman, a pen, and the words Beowulf [insert line number, i forget which, a passage relating to treasure] written in elven; so the trick was for them to search the library for said book, which unfortunately couldn't be a fictional in-world book without me making up gibberish for it, so after they did so they got a physical copy i had on hand; and then to figure out that the numbers referred to line number instead of page number, an aspect of poetry writing; and then that the text had to be written in elven, like the inscription.
It went well, took about 10-15 minutes, but took some trial and error at the end because they thought the number meant something else for a while. Overall, i felt the puzzle felt arbitrary (though it was a scholar's sanctum they were breaking into) and that i overestimated player knowledge a bit; i'd also prefer to not use outside aids, or such obviously puzzle-based design as a cipher-locked secret door- something more integrated would be better.
2: a gargoyle holds a bowl, and written in giant is something like: i offer up my red, hot sticky life to Atreus. So, to progress to the altar room beyond, they need to fill the bowl with blood, but its a good aligned party, so part of the challenge is finding an ethically suitable source of blood, and then heating it somehow if it had to be transported. They also need a translator, but this is a minor inconvenience, and I can add one easily enough in a room nearby since the character who speaks giant can't read it apparently. An easy one, but should be fun to run.
I think this one will go well.
3: Another involves drinking the near-but-not-quite-lethal dose of a poison in a chamber- 40mL for an adult in a suicidal chamber where people offer up their souls to a gem to be reincarnated soon afterwards. there's a child-size cup, 30mL, an adult size cup, 70mL, and a super-size cup, 100mL, and a fountain. Too much and they die, and too little and it wont do much nor trigger the effect- a captive elf will describe the needed dosage and results of drinking it, and how it will unlock the gem, and how his partner died in a botched attempt. They came across the poison fountain earlier, and though they tried to get the goblin to drink it, the goblin was prudent and they wisely waited for more information before indulging, aided by an inscription of a person drinking and their heart flowing towards a gem, which luckily seemed ominous to them. Figuring out the dose will be easy for them using the cup puzzle, and the sized cups adds a bit of comedy to the otherwise dark situation.
4: a huge pit trap surrounded by large sarcophagi; not strictly an obstacle, but more of a danger: the way they solved this was interesting because they dragged over every one of the big stone coffins and connived to lean them against each other using opposing force to wedge the doors open so they could shoot down at the ghouls below through the gap. It wasn't necessary, but I'm glad they did it because it was hilarious to run. It took some decent rolling to pull it off i decided, since it was a pretty demanding feat of improvised engineering. They were pretty happy about pulling this one off.
5: navigation puzzle, where all passages lead in the same direction, and are blocked off, but its only apparent after exploring thoroughly and mapping along the way; they then went looking above for another way down (at each node there was a ladder leading down to the underground area they were in, multiple entrances) which led to the final area, estimating where said way-down would be, and found it in a barn under some hay, leading to a ton of loot and a snake boss. They figured it out pretty quick once the map was near-complete, and felt good about solving it, since the cave-ins were recent and it seemed logical.
Simon C:
I've had largely very negative experiences with puzzles like the ones you describe. It seems like they're pretty successful in the group you play with, but as a player, I find them intensely irritating.
I think it's something about how a lot of the games where you'll find this kind of puzzle, you'll also find encouragement of intense character-perspective play, that is, you play with what your character knows. Puzzles seem to break with that type of play. To me, puzzles always felt like this weirdly seperate part of play, like you'd play for a bit, then stop and sit around trying to figure out a riddle, and then jump back into playing again. It was weird and jarring.
I'm not sure if I'd find it as annoying now.
Of the examples you posted, the ones I find most appealing are the ones that reward exploration of the game-world through the characters. So, the pit trap and the navigation puzzle are more appealing to me. It seems like they're your preferred ones as well. Is that correct? I guess that's because these puzzles don't encourage as much disconnect between player and character, but that's a guess.
I've run a couple of puzzles as well. The most successful of these was a room with a grid of tiles on the floor. Each tile would light up and spark with electricity when you stood on it, and stay lit. Stepping on an already lit tile would give you a jolt (a few HPs damage), and touching a door while any tiles were lit would give you a big jolt (a die for every tile lit). The players tried out a few things first, before one of the players figured out there was a route through the room that would result in all the tiles being lit when you got to the door on the other side. The cool part about this was the character standing on the last tile, with all the tiles lit, worrying about whether touching the door was the right thing. If he was wrong, the shock would probably kill the character. When the character opened the door without a shock, everyone cheered.
So that was ok, I guess because the puzzle itself was pretty simple, and the real challenge was about risking your character on having the right solution.
AzaLiN:
Quote
Of the examples you posted, the ones I find most appealing are the ones that reward exploration of the game-world through the characters. So, the pit trap and the navigation puzzle are more appealing to me. It seems like they're your preferred ones as well. Is that correct? I guess that's because these puzzles don't encourage as much disconnect between player and character, but that's a guess.
I entirely agree with you- they don't break the players out of the game, and they're the most natural sort to occur without some outside force, DM or architect, building it into the scenario. The navigation one is my favorite by far, and without copying it i'd like to introduce a lot more that are like it, or as successful as it was.
Navigation
[0] Message Index
[#] Next page